If Van Buren was canon then the vaults would have made a bit more sense, as they would have been procedural experiments to see how best to survive in space and long-duration space-travel.

Eden wasn't Vice President, if he appointed a VP then the VP would superceed him as Acting President and become the next one, from Wikipedia:

6.The fact that, should a Cabinet member begin to act as President, the law allows the House to elect a new Speaker (or the Senate, a new President pro tempore), who could in effect remove the Cabinet member and assume the office themselves at any time.

I assumed that this was because the Speaker of the House or the Speaker has a rank greater than that of a Cabinet member; maybe Eden was Speaker of the House, but my point is that the VP is 1st in line, if he appointed a VP then that VP could legally claim office. You know what I think of Eden's motivations Lt.

I d have to play fo3 again, but Eden says he became self aware. I swear he said others decided he would be best for the job. I just got the idea from him that he didn t just say he was pres and everyone just went with it. I swear he said others decided. I could be wrong I don t have fo3 anymore anyway.

Eden says there is still a congress and elections, but he said that during propaganda speeches on the radio, so I didn t really believe it.

IMO The U.S. goverment ended in 2077. The only way to get another U.S. govn. would be to have an election of the people of the wastes. That can t happen, and Enclave wants to kill them all anyway, so I don t see how they could ever be the U.S. govn.

They don t have a flag on thier pa, because they know they d dishonoring it.

What I mean is that if the President or Senior figure was an Enclave member on the sly. Then I think he could reasonably claim, after the bombs fell, Presidency in accoradance with the line of succession; then he would be the President of America, legitimately; thus the US still exists. Then he does what I said earlier, altering the constitution, in affect, making everything the Enclave will do legal and, more importantly, not un-constitutional. Besides, what the hell else are they going to do on the ENCLAVE? What can a President really do 24/7 there, I believe that many Cabinet positions were left empty and new ones created.

@ Rook, "they'd be dishonouring it..." I like that , however twisted it would be, everything I've explained is why the government would be legitimate, they could modify the constituation so only the people on the ENCLAVE were citizens. The Enclave patrols do call you an "illegal alien".

This is why I don't believe if he had appointed a Vice-President, he would have been replaced:

Eden became President because he was part of the Continuity of Government Plans, when the line broke to him, he assumed command. He is now, the official President of the United States and there isn't anyone else left in the succession line. In other words (in my view) it went from number 18. Secretary of Homeland Security, to 19. Raven Rock ZAX AI. If Eden appoints his Vice President (which I still maintain he couldn't really do) that doesn't mean that Eden is automatically usurped, since (as President) he is rebuilding the line of succession from the ground up again. (also in the quote you posted, it mentions the house elects a new Speaker or President Pro Tempore, but since presumably both the House and Senate has been obliterated we cannot say that Eden could be disposed in this way)



Do you think you could post a link to that page? I'd like to read more concerning that quote you posted.

Edit: Nevermind got it

I see what youre saying in relation to who gets to be pres.


for some reaon i just got the mental image the enclave as portrayed by the little rascals

They would have put all that time and tech into helping rebuild they d be great. Problem is my understanding it that they wanted a nuclear war. They were twisted before the war they were twisted after the war.

They could change the constitution all they want but I know where the original copy is. Well they could do what ever they wanted once everyone was dead who would argue???? lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_line_of_succession#Successions_beyond_Vice_President, he wouldn't be the official President though would he? He only assumed office because the elected President was killed, he is only the Acting President. What I meant is by rebuilding the Line of Succession, he displaces himself, because his claim to Presidency might have been because he was... whatever, but he definately wasn't Richardson's VP, therefore by appointing another VP he, in affect, gives someone the authority to superceed his claim.

They are putting everything into rebuilding, even their own well-being, imagine the world a century after the Project imagine how safe, happy and healthy the human race will be; constant progress and no war. The Encalve didn't want a nuclear war, do you think that the CEO of Poseion Energy wanted to trade his 10 bedroomed rural ranch for a bunkbed and locker on the Oil Rig? Twisted is a cruel word, they almost ensured the 100% survival of mankind and everything... if they had one in Fallout 2.

Let me just say that this is all very confusing given the information we're having to deal with (Fallout 3), I'm having some trouble wrapping by head around it.

He would be the official President though, (acting President refers to when the President is still alive but incapacitated, for instance, when Lincoln was shot but lingered on for awhile, VP Andrew Johnson became acting President until Lincoln died, which is when he became officially the President).

When Eden took over (and since the President and everybody else was defintely dead) he became the official President and that would only change when his term ended.



He couldn't really displace himself though, since by COG protcols he is now the President, he wouldn't have to step down if he appointed a VP. Its because the line was broken to him that he becomes the official President. The only way he could be superseceded at this point is if a previously- thought dead member of the line of succession turned out to be alive, then Eden would need to step down and recognize the authority of that individual.

I guess it can be said that in Fallout 2 there was an American "government." A president, vp and a presidential cabinet. Fallout 3 there was just Eden. One leader is pretty much a dictator.

So if you are like me, the American government died October 23, 2077. If you don't believe that then I guess you can say the government died sometime in 2241.

Technically though he hasn't proclaimed dictatorial powers. Its just that there is no-one left but Eden (but there still could have been if the appropriate canidates had stepped up) and likely the amendment which limits the President to two terms was suspended via emergency powers.

In my opinion though, sometimes there just needs to be one man to get things done, who will then step down when the time is right.

The truth is, if America had to go through such an event as a total obliteration of its government, then its not going to come out the same as it started. Many have argued throughout United States history that a particular President's use of emergency powers was "dictatorial".

The Enclave in Fallout 3 were nothing but remnants of the Enclave in Fallout 2 that could not face the fact they had lost. Eden was the lone government official. He was the government. He may not have given himself the power of a dictactor because he did not have to. It was given to him by diehards not willing to give up. Diehards not willing to ask "where is our president?" They were happy not paying attantion to the "man behind the curtains." Did not seem like there were any Enclave other then military people and military people can't be the government of America.

Fallout 2 Enclave still had a "government" but I still feel they were just pretenders. People that usurped power in a coup and were happy to let the rest of the government and America die.

I would contest that and agrue that they actually saved the government (because no non-Enclave government, or even mention of one existing briefly, has ever been mentioned), I would argue that there was no coup but I can see that it is a lost cause...

Some discussion we've jsut had there

Agree to disagree on that issue of Enclave :foodndrink:

Well with the government destroyed any one could start a legitimate government.

So I agree with you there.

Yes but I believe that the United States Government continued legally and constituationally comprised of entirely Enclave personnel aboard the ENCLAVE for legitimate reasons.

The people in the Enclave before the war probably paid to get some routing codes for some deep impact ICBMs and killed any real gov. that was left. No one would know the difference.

I know I read that they wanted a nuclear war somewhere. IDK if its canon or semi canon . Avellone said he wouldn t use his bible as canon unless Bethesda said it was canon, but I thought Bethesda said it was canon already.

When there is conflicting info out there it s really hard to debate this stuff. I need to find out what pieces of pre war story info Bethedda says is canon for sure.

If Bethesda says bible is canon I ll take the actual document over wiki every time, because wiki is a info holder. If they start changing info without merit................. that is bad

This is why I dont debate anything like this anymore, because I don t know what is canon anymore after Styles e-mailed Avellone. Now I need to know what Bethesda says is canon pre war info.

Thats kind of what I was trying to say.

Also my question still remains: Who was Eden's vice president?
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It was either col autum or the guy who died with james when he did that thing with the purifier where he killed every1 in there

They can't be VP because they are military and military can't be president which means they can't be Vice President.

Just for the record, you are talking about the same people, Autumn was at the purifer as well.

In no way though, could Autumn be Vice President, as that would be against the United States Constitution, they're needs to be civilian control of the government and the armed forces.

We don't really know if Eden had a cabinent or Vice President, its certainly not out of the question (perhaps they were the "Enclave High Command" that was in Broken Steel?) if he did though, it couldn't have been any of the characters we have seen in Fallout 3.

I honestly just find it sad that the Enclave have a computer for a president, and even it comes up with the stupid idea to dump FEV virus into Capitol Wasteland's water supply. I wouldn't mind Super Mutants out of the picture, but Ghouls are my best friends.

Well they didn't in Fallout 2, its just that in Fallout 3, there is really no-one left but Eden to take legitimate control of the government.

I really have absolutely no problem with Eden being a computer, in fact, when I first found out it didn't change my opinion of him at all. Its not the first time in Fallout that a computer has taken control of a group, for instance, the Shi in Fallout 2 were controlled by an AI who was their "emperor".

As for his plan (and that of Richardson) of course its your opinon to dislike it, but it would arguably bring about a better world.

Well, legality is pretty fluid.

One of the interesting things about the US Supreme Court is that exists primarily to interpret the law's spirit as much as its lettering. It can overturn laws and declare other things unconstitutional even if the Supreme Court previously ruled on it. I imagine the Enclave could legally be the United States government but by almost all United States reconstituted standards, it'd be judged as an illegitimate offshoot.

Certainly, the only thing preventing any and all members of the Enclave's government from being impeached for gross crimes and malfeasance is the fact that no one CARES in the Capital Wasteland when they can just shoot them.