Hey everyone

With the lore that's been added to TES with Skyrim, is Alduin now considered not to be the Nordic equivalent of Akatosh in the same way that Auri-El is the Mer equivalent of Akatosh?

Also, what exactly is an "Aspect" of a god in the TES universe?

Thanks

I do believe Skyrim essentially downgraded Alduin from being equal to Akatsh, like Auri-El is, and made him just a part of Akatosh.

Alduin is like the aspect of Hircine you fight at the end of Bloodmoon, or the fragment that appears to you in Skyrim in the form of the ghost deer, those things aren't Hircine, not fully, but only a single part of him.

Alduin is the part of akatosh that deals with THE END, given its own from, and sentience.

I think he's still the same as he always was. He's a dragon god.. so..

Aspects in TES are perspectives on an Aedric god that take on their own lives. Not sure in Alduin's case. Has he always been there? You'd think, given his role as the alpha and omega of TES, he'd have to have been.. so it's not really an Akatosh deal.

An aspect in TES is a certain culture's view of an original Aedra. As the Aedra are 'dead' they are susceptible to being changed by mortal belief and each cultural belief becomes a real version, or aspect of that god. So Auriel would be the Elven aspect of the Time God, Akatosh the Imperial aspect, Alkosh the Khajiit aspect, Etc.

As for Alduin being the Nordic aspect of the Time God, he might not be anymore as it seems they changed the lore in Skyrim. It is mentioned somewhere that Nords don't view Alduin and Akatosh as being the same Dragon, so perhaps when Akatosh was forced into their pantheon their beliefs changed and so Alduin changed along with them.

What if Alduin that we saw was simply an aspect of the real god Alduin, and when we killed him he simply went back to him instead of Akatosh like some think. That explains his size and why he doesn't just eat the world. Maybe his aspect went in early for whatever reason which is why he tried conquering rather than devouring. We know its possible because we saw Akatosh's aspect back in oblivion. Well, that and we saw plenty of other god aspects as well.

Were those aspects or avatars/what's the difference between the two?

I think avatar is physical manifestation while aspect is more of the god's spiritual being.

I always figured those to be the same thing. A deluded watered down representation of the god in other words.

I know that there was a fan theory I read a while back that suggested that the Alduin we see in Skyrim is actually a regular dragon who tried to mantle the real Alduin, and since the mortals he was terrorizing didn't know the difference between one terrifying dragon king and another, he basically became Alduin through the power of mortal belief. I have no idea if that is a viable theory, however.

If he mantled Alduin, he mantled Alduin and he is Alduin. The theory has no base, no reason for believing Alduin was mantled. Mythopoeia doesn't affect non-Aedra (don't think dragons count) as far as I know so he can't just mantle Alduin through that.. so how else can he mantle Alduin?

Aspect is more of an idea while avatar is physical manifestation.

Aspect of Space God - Lorkhan. Avatar - Pelinal.

To be fair, he did manage to get tossed through time (Something Dragons are supposed to be sensitive about) and didn't seem to worse for wear, is nigh immortal unless you mind woogie him with the notion of mortality, and has the power to turn back time for individual dragons and return them to their previous state. Hes certainly different enough from his kin to deduce that there is something up with him.

Yeah.. Alduin is invulnerable to damage before Dragonrend, cannot be defeated within Mundus, can resurrect dragons. Just because he isn't massive doesn't mean he's no longer a "god". He's just a pretty rebellious aspect.

He's probably "first born of Akatosh" because of dragon break craziness. Or he just means the oversoul, which means he's the first aspect of Aka.

Considering that Hircine calls the parts of him you fight during Bloodmoon, and the magic deer you see in Skyrim, aspects, an aspect is a physical thing.

An aspect is, in normal fantasy, a direct manifestation of part of a being's power. Like an aspect of anger, is the manifestation of said being's anger.

What makes an aspect different then an avatar is that an aspect is a directly linked part of another being, it's like, if your arm was sentient, where as avatars are other begins that gods act through.

His aspects are physical manifestation of traits. I think the emphasis, with the way people use the term "aspect" when regarding Aedra, should then be on the physical representation rather than the Guile, Strength and Speed.

Can be. They're intangible concepts that can manifest themselves in the world. Granted, Hircine is different since he's Daedroth. The Princes most likely have control of all their different parts since they didn't sunder anything from themselves to begin with.

A trait is an aspect of a creature, just like in my example, anger is an aspect, fear is an aspect, hatred is an aspect, etc. etc. An aspect is a part of another being.

Alduin is himself an aspect of Akatosh, the aspect of the part of Akatosh, who is time itself, that deals with THE END!

An when regarded to the other Aedra, aspects refer to what part of the TIME DRAGON they are, Akatosh is the mannish aspect of the time dragons, Auri-El is the elves,and Alkosh is the Khajiit aspect. Alduin being an aspect of Akatosh really makes him an aspect of an aspect.

Or in better terms, Alduin isn't a fragment of the TIME DRAGON oversoul, hes a fragment of the fragment of the oversoul that is Akatosh.

Yes, exactly. While an avatar is just physical manifestation of said aspect. I wouldn't say Alduin is an aspect of Akatosh but the original time-oversoul.

While Alduin is a part of the oversoul, he isn't a part of it like Akatosh, or Auri-El, are.

Alduin is a fragment of a fragment of the oversoul, making him lesser to the other fragments.

and no, an avatar is not a physical manifestation of an aspect, an avatar is a being that another being works through.

I like this idea.

I am not of the belief that he is simply a fragment of Akatosh. That doesn't make sense unless he was made that way via dragonbreak.

considering that akatosh, being a god of time, has always existed, or at least was made to have always existed via a dragonbreak, I dont find it that hard to believe.

Alduin himself states he was the first creation of akatosh, and if alduin was equal to aka, one would think he would complain about Aka being a lair who took his place, or something, instead of the clearly subservient language he uses.

I think that's partially out of him just using the language/terminology we'd be most likely to understand. Just like he doesn't call himself the "Firstborn of Bormahu," because we're unlikely to grasp who that is without an explanation.