Doing Mr. House quests. That's my goal with this character.

Problem, my character is a Techie, befriended Veronica. Went to the Brotherhood and did all their quests (keeping the existing Elder that Veronica liked). The Brotherhood loves me.

I told house the Brotherhood will aid the NCR in the battle. He said kill them. I talked to him again and told him they would help us, he said kill them anyway.

So I leave Veronica behind and go to the bunker. As soon as I open the boor a Brotherhood member runs up to me and tells me that they really appreciate all the help I've given them and that I can pic up some ammo anytime I want in the box in the entrance room. She walks off and I'm standing there feeling like a total heel since I'm there to kill them all. Dang it.

Well going way out of character I set the turrets to kill and set the self destruct. I leave the place and hate my character. I mean I am WAY out of character at this point and all because Mr. House would not accept anything other than the Brotherhood dead.

What is his problem anyway? Why couldn't I at least lie to Mr. House (Speech is 100) and let the Brotherhood live. Dang I hate stupid choices like this.

I got Veronica back in my party and she hasn't mentioned anything about it. Don't know how long that will last.

That's the way they set the game up, I'm afraid. Caesar doesn't give you any choice but to destroy them either.

Everyone wants the brotherhood dead. NCR, Legion, House, and if you listen to Yes Man the "advice" is pretty obvious.


You yourself in this game end up with oldworld tech up the kazoo. Do you really think that just because you are you and youre a fledgeling member of the BoS that they will let you keep all those tech goodies? Nope. Hand them over to the leadership, recruit. You're not fit to play with these toys. If you let them live, and god forbid, prosper, you are setting yourself up for a fall. There is no benefit, save sentimental value and pity... pity they will not and never have bestowed on anyone else.

I simply dont undestand this loveaffair with BoS. They arent nice, their tactics and their socio-cultural lifestyle is archaeic and counterproductive and they don't give a [censored]e about anyone to the point of being actively bigoted. Remember that the outcasts in FO3 keep saying "Go bang some rocks together or something, local": Thats the BoS view on anyone who isnt BoS. Locals are primitives who are barely worthy of scorn.

I dont want to help that. I want to bury it.

But the BoS are going to die off anyway. Veronica left them because they just would not change. 10 or 20 years later in game and they would have been done anyway. They are hardly worth the effort to destroy them completely. They are already doing that for you. I just made friends with the faction and didn't want to have to kill them.

There are two sides to the Brotherhood, really. One is hoarding technology, and the other is saving lives. (Capital Wasteland's BoS). Not all Brotherhood's Elders are single-minded like McNamara. They're pretty secrective and unpredictable, that's what makes them interesting and dangerous. They're like little kids who has a great idea, but doesn't always exactly know what to do, but in the end they usually means well. If there's really an end to the world, I'll count on the Brotherhood to be there fighting for human kind when everything else had fallen apart or given up. That's why they're the face of the Fallout series.

IMO, the Brotherhood is the great equalizer. Usually when the Brotherhood is involved, you know it's big. They'll probably either want to kill House or Caesar to save the Mojave, or gut the place for every scrap of technology. House and Caesar were right to fear them.

I undestand the sentiment.

But they wouldnt stop doing what they do just because they become fewer. And their hardlineners whom you will meet in the Veronica personal quest really see you and everything you represent as a plague. If you havent allready I strongly suggest you see what happens to Followers who would want to welcome Veronica. Its not pretty. And thats who they are.

The Capitol wasteland BoS isnt really BoS anymore. And the saving lives bit isnt really something they do out of lofty goals or of altruism. They rather resent havng to deal with the rabble and being diverted from obtaining tech.


They could change and reform... but I really dont see that as an option. Their own dogmatism will be their undoing.

There's only ever been one side to the Brotherhood, and that side is explicitly stated in the Codex that they follow. That is namely: to hoard, collect, and otherwise abscond with all manner of technology and ensure it isn't used by anyone but them.

Groups who disagree with this sentiment are off-shoot organizations who have left the Brotherhood or been declared anathema with the Western Elders. Such as Lyons and the Midwestern Brotherhood. These groups are "Brotherhood" only in name. For all intents and purposes however (and officially according to the ruling body of the Brotherhood) they are no longer as such.

Because they change their ways of doing things doesn't mean that CW's BoS "isn't really BoS anymore". Everybody who support Elder Lyons are proud to call themselves Brotherhood of Steel Paladins.

My point is: They did succeded in saving lives. And they transformed the Capital Wasteland through the water purifier. Maybe they did it for their own reasons, but they still did some good things out of it all. Elder Lyons was just like every other Elders. He wanted to find out more about the super mutants in the CW, then he found out that super mutants have been taking people, then in turns he wanted to save the people of the CW.

Who cares if people, even their own, consider them as off-shoots, or going against the Codex... They don't really care and keep on about their business. They still consider themselves Brotherhood of Steel, and they carry with them their reputation AS the Brotherhood of Steel into missions to save lives. What I really like about the Brotherhood is that they're the quinessential good guys, as far as the Fallout Universe goes.

To reinforce my points: In many cases, the Brotherhood even allows Super Mutants from the Master's army to join their ranks.

If you sneak kill everyone in the bunker you won't lose any reputation and Veronica won't leave you, you'll also still get ammo in the crate.

The BoS Didn't become what they are today overnight. The downhill process was long and forthcoming, where there are chapters that follow the Codex to the letter, and end up like the Mojave Chapter, and then there are those who are like Lyons or Veronica, who are willing to adapt if it means he continuation of the Order.

Lyon's Brotherhood you mean. The West Coast is far from it.

how would you sneak kill them. i notice if NPCs aren't outright hositle to the PC, it is easy to get in position for a sneak attack critical. but the brotherhood has stronger DT. what weapon to use?

Apparently they originally planned on allowing both factions to spare the brotherhood, as there is cut dialogue lines for both House and Caesar(although the Legion option is temporary)

I remember when the game first released it was possible to get a schematic to construct the Rock-It Launcher from Fallout 3 at a workbench, but you couldn't actually build it in the game. Apparently Obsidian cut the weapon from the game but forgot to cut the schematic as well (they patched this up later and removed the schematic). I guess that was another idea that wound up on the cutting room floor for one reason or another.

It would be interesting if someone were to make a mod for New Vegas that was similar to the Fallout 2 Restoration Project, which put a fair amount of cut content back into the game. I'd certainly try it out.

Christine's CoS Silencer Rifle works wonders.