Im surprised ( hello all) that this valid skll is hardly ever talked about on the forum , its a combat skill and yet as far as ive searched ive never came across somebody who actually used it , Barret moslin is the first character I have ever tried to use it as a professional major , with the aim of getting it to master eventually.

However , my observations are that it is undeniably weak , im finding myself increasingly relying on conjuration to get myself out of sticky situations , it might just be the harsh level curve ive just hit , but I wonder maybe this is why very few people use it?

Despite this, im going to fight on because I hated it when they removed it as a skill in skyrim , its so primal and obvious it just felt strange that when you used your fists you didn't "level up " .

Im enjoying exploring the skill, also having no weapons weighing you down is a major advantage ( A major , not a minor ) , ive found im carrying so much less than I usually do .

Theres also the fact that im using heavy armour to try and beef out my build , to be honest without conjuration I think I would be finding it very had by now.

What are your thoughts on hand-to hand

It's pretty much not talked about for the reasons you are finding out. Unmodded, the higher you level the worse your H2H gets relative to the sword bashing world around you. It's a shame really. I actually think only a couple of mods managed to make it somewhat viable. I believe the mod Unnecessary Violence has aided H2H though I could be mistaken. Been a while since I've read up on that mod.

I do recall a couple of posters saying that had successfully done H2H throughout the game but I'm unsure of the validity of the claims. If I recall correctly, they used the Lord as their birthsign and got those special gauntlets you can find.

I have a character that uses it as a minor skill. It's part of her roleplay so it is used but I'm definitely not good enough of a player to make it her main. I have to sub in a two handed sword for that "martial arts" kind of feeling.

No poisons, no enchantments, and almost no reach. Uphill battle all the way.

Add a bow. Poison your enemy before he gets close. You need some kind of ranged attack anyway. You'll be glad you did.

Seriously, though, it might be possible to use Hand-to-hand alone, but it's going to be one of those "stunt characters," like trying to play the game through without ever killing anybody.

Something , Glargg , that you yourself and others had done , the "pacifist" is ridiculously hard and the game clearly wasn't made for them , but they are possible .

Reading through the two posts ( thanks freewitch for your mod suggestion) ive become more convinced to stick it out to the end , it seems fundamentally wrong to turn our backs on a pure vanilla skill , I just cant do it . Ive done 100's of archers, swordsman , mages and barbarians over the years , and in all that time never once , not ONCE , have I fought the uphill struggle of hand-to hand , so now its perhaps time that , for the greater community of hand-to-hand obsessionists , I take the stand and fight my way to the top !!

Say no to :

to :

to :

Well , ill give it a really good try , vanilla only , and besides conjuration im not cheating with poisons , when the time comes I might get those gauntlets though..im also kinda hopeing heavy armour might give me enough beef to fight it out

What H2H really needed was a perk tree , didn't it ?

Once you hit level 50....

There is nothing more enjoyable, than the suprised look on your opponent's face, when you knock them down, and they scramble back to their feet all embarrassed.

I have a hand to hand character that I played up to about level 9 or so and I have used it sporadically on higher level characters as a minor skill, sometimes with fortify skill. While I agree with glargg's assessment overall, I have found hand to hand to be useful against humanoid opponents because of the fatigue drain. They don't hit as hard with their fatigue drained and they fall down a lot. But going up against an ogre or a bear is going to be a challenge.