Vrbas:

Try loading the save now that your mod list is straightened out. Go to an unmodded interior cell. Open the console and type krr and close. Save again to a new slot. exit. Open that save, save again to a new slot. exit. Open Wrye Mash, go to the saves tab and right click your latest save. Select repair all. Load the save and see if you still have doubles.

Between fixing your modlist, reordering it, and cleaning the save, doubles should be fairly well eliminated.

*IF* they aren't, you may still have some sort of *real* doubling by using two mods which add the same item. Go to a place where you see two of something and click on one of them with the mouse. open the console, check to be certain the ID of the object/NPC is at the top and type ori. This should show where the object is coming from. Now do the same thing with the *second* of the doubled objects. If they both have an .esp or .esm listed in the results, then you actually have two mods which are placing that item. If one has an .esp/esm and the other says 'None' then it's classic doubling and there may be no solution.

The first possibility above is common when users have two versions of the same mod (or the original and another merged mod which includes that mod) checked in their modlist.

Good Luck

Thanks. I did what you said with the saves and Wrye, no luck. I went in and targeted the doubles, here's what i found in one of the shops where there's a double.

Reference - _beledas0000001
sourceID 13000e76
target ID 13000e76
file - GS_Seyda Neen Complete.esp
cell - Seyda Neen, Armor Shop

Reference - _beledas0000000 (so no 1 this time)
sourceID - a bunch of zeros
Target ID - a bunch of zeros
file - None
Cell - Seyda Neen, Armor Shop

Classic doubling. That's a pain in the a$$. There is one last thing you could try. Have you ever heard of Enchanted Editor? It is a program which you can use to open savegames (as well as mods) to edit them. If you get it or have it and want to give this a try, you can effectively delete all cells altered by player from your savegame. What this does is simply returns them to their default. If you've visited a cell, moved or taken things out, it will be 'reset'. You can go back into that cell and everything will be right where it was to start. Be sure to back up the save before attempting this fix. If you have any questions about EE, please ask before deleting anything, but remember, if you have a backup, you can always restore it.

I have used EE many times for removing the 'stolen flag' from items and it works like a charm. There are tutorials for using EE, but it's not hard to do the simpler procedures. The GUI is fairly user friendly.

I have it and have used it to edit a few small things, but not game files. So explain to me what you meant by stuff that has been "moved" or "taken out". If i've used, say, the CS to place items in an interior cell for one of my mods, will all those reset? Or is it just stuff i've "dropped" or "taken" in-game?

I'm also trying to diagnose my FPS problem in Seyda Neen. I noticed that after a fresh new game, it's fixed. So there's gotta be some sort of external doubling or something going on. What can i do about it?

Let me give you a few examples.

1) If you take everything on the table in the room with hrisskar's note (the chargen stuff) and pile it up in the corner of the room, then you delete that cell using EE, the pile of stuff will be gone and everything will be back where it was the next time you visit that cell. To my knowledge this just applies to what is laying out, nothing in containers should be affected, because there is a separate entry for containers altered by player.
2) The same applies to mod-added cells. If you've added/moved/taken items out of a mod-added cell, it will be returned to it's default state also. Everything you left laying out will be deleted and it will reappear back in it's original location.
3) The same applies to exterior cells. If it was on the ground and you picked it up and dropped it three feet away or kept it, it will be back in it's original spot after that cell has been deleted.
4) This won't affect NPC's or their inventories; Fargoth's ring will not re-appear in the barrel and NPC's you've killed will not be resurrected.


As you might expect, this can result in some unbalancing and extra loot ingame, but that doesn't usually bother me. What I mean is, if you run Lilarcor and have it/him in your inventory when you delete cells, he'll be back in Arrille's tradehouse jabbering away the next time you go in. Thus, you can potentially own two loundmouthed, annoying, uber-swords, insead of just one. This is not doubling, exactly, because there are not two of the same thing in the same place anymore. There's just one in your inventory, or in a container, and one in it's original spot. Did I just muddy the waters more?

The thing is, the items are technically deleted, but they show back up at their original locations. Nothing in your inventory should be affected, nor NPCs or anything in containers, because those have completely separate entries in EE. In EE, under 'cells altered by player' you can pick and choose which cells to delete. If you know of cells you have redecorated and don't want changed, you can UNCHECK them and they won't be deleted.

You might want to back up your savegame and play around with EE a bit. As I said, my first experience with EE was deleting everything under the 'stolen items' heading. I was tired of taking a piece of paper and from then on having every piece of paper in the game marked as stolen from 'a shady smuggler'

As far as the doubling goes, external and internal, if deleting the cells doesn't work, I'm out of ideas.

Just out of curiosity, have you tried unchecking GS_Seyda Neen Complete.esp, saving your game without it (a clean save), doing a repair all in wrye, and then re-checking the mod and continuing on? This will reset EVERYTHING that is added by that mod, but only what is added by that mod. If that's acceptable, it should solve your doubling and FPS problem in Seyda Neen.

I really appreciate all the help. I think i'll start w/ unchecking Seyda Neen and doing a clean save, then i'll move on to EE if i need to and i'll let you know. Can you run me through the steps again of a clean save? Was it what you wrote earlier?

To thoroughly clean a save:

1) save your game in an unmodded interior cell, exit.
2) uncheck GS_Seyda Neen Complete.esp from your load list.
3) load up your save and save it again in a new slot (with a new name), exit.
3a) load up this save and save it again to a new slot. (Yes, I know you just did this, but this step is to make sure MCP is done fixing what it can before moving on to WryeMash)
3b) open wryemash and do a repair all on the new save.
3c) load the save and save *one last time* in a new slot, exit. (Again, this step is to complete Wryemash's cleaning)
4) check GS_Seyda Neen Complete.esp again.
5) load your save and look for doubles.

3a-3c -- Some folks would think this is unnecessary because MCP does a lot to make these saves clean, but I have found Wryemash cleans out debris scripts which are left behind by MCP. I *think* MCP's ability to clean saves is mostly intended to prevent savegame corruption which occurs often enough without mods. All the saving and exiting is simply to ensure the process is complete.

This has worked for me, but your mileage may vary.

If you find any more doubles, check them using ori in the console and see if any other mods might be involved. You can repeat this process with each mod in turn; just *don't* change the load order and you won't cause any more doubling.

Woohoo! It worked! My doubles are gone.

HOWEVER, i'm still getting shoddy framerates in Seyda Neen. Any way to diagnose? So far all i figured out is that it appears to do w/ a couple of swamp style trees, and that starting a fresh, new game will eliminate the lag.

Wonderful! If you've narrowed it down to a couple of trees, is it possible those trees are from another mod and could be doubled also? If that's the case, you can repeat the clean save procedure by unchecking that mod.

On the other hand, if you think it's just the tree, try clicking on it, opening the console, and typing disable. This will remove the tree from the game. If you can live without it, save again and go on. If you don't like the missing tree, don't save and just reload. If you disable the tree and there's another one under it, you know it's been doubled, too. In any case, it's perfectly safe to disable statics in game. You wouldn't want to disable an activator, but trees are just scenery.

Dang, good call. There had to have been at least a dozen duplicates of that tree. I got it down to just one and it's running great! Thanks again so much, everyone, for your time and input.

Glad to hear you got things worked out

Eureka! (and you're welcome)

Glad to see you got it working.

Nice call Elaura, I was out of ideas.