I decided to cross-post this to its own topic in order to inform more users and to capture discussion about it here instead of it being mixed into the current discussion thread, where I am trying to troubleshoot some issues in Frostfall 2.5.

Frostfall will be permanently removed from Steam Workshop as of Friday, September 20th, 2013.

There seems to be an ongoing issue for me on Steam Workshop in a way that doesn't repeat itself on other places that I host, such as Skyrim Nexus, and it's been going on for several months now. Specifically, users not reading the carefully-provided documentation, a general lack of respect, and (as of late) personal attacks (see comment below). Basically, I no longer need to live a life where I fear clicking the little green message icon in Steam because I know it's going to be some form of abuse.

I mod for recreation, and modding is no longer fun when people http://i.imgur.com/lXtDbds.png (warning: censored advlt language). That's just one example. Yes, I could delete the comment, but quite honestly I'm getting tired of having no moderation occurring at this hosting location and being responsible for policing my own boards. It would be another matter entirely if I actually had the power to moderate such as block certain users from commenting, turn off comments entirely, comment approval, but I have none of those tools available to me on the Workshop.

I think that Steam Workshop is a fine place to host smaller, more easily-consumable mods which don't require user participation in the form of community interaction and documentation, but for something as expansive as Frostfall, I've decided that it's no longer a good fit.

I am a bit worried about putting up to 44,634 individuals that currently subscribe to this file through a bit of trouble, but it is what it is, and I have to do what is best for my own well-being. If you fall in this category, I'm sorry for the inconvenience.

Frostfall will be removed from the Workshop on Friday, September 20th, 2013. Please transition to the Skyrim Nexus version (which can be upgraded to from the Workshop version, please follow instructions). Thank you for your support for the file on the Workshop and your understanding.

I will evaluate my other mods for inclusion to the Workshop on a case-by-case basis. Wearable Lanterns 3.0 will probably not come to the Workshop, nor will Arissa. Some of my more trivial mods will remain, such as 418th Step, Belt Fastened Quivers, and other mods that do not involve scripting (which requires some user participation in order to use the included shutdown procedures).

I'm sorry you had to go through that, Chesko. I think you did the right thing.

Well done mate, if something ain't fun anymore stop doin' it. There's really no need to stand the abuse of the internet kids.

It's entitled little [censored]s like the guy who made that post Chesko highlighted that make me embarrassed to be a mod user sometimes.

I'm sorry that happened Chesko more so after you made such wonderful mods for everyone.

Thats why skyui and the mcm is a must have well the mcm anyway because even if you accidentally start frostfall you can just turn it off via the menu.

i would go on about how stupid have you gotta be to not read the damn warnings and uninstallation guide but in todays so called society stupid people out number those with common sense so it would be pointless

It's always the actions of a small few who don't bother to read the instructions that seem to have the hardest time. Thus, those who do have genuine concerns are unable to express their issues due to the ignorant (and entitled) few.

People who don't bother to read the instructions have been around for a long, long time, and they're not going away anytime soon, I'm afraid.

I mean... eh. That kind of commenting doesn't personally bother me, in the sense of, "Oh gosh, I'm so mad right now!", but I do try to maintain a kind of healthy mental equilibrium, and this kind of thing just wears on you over time, and I realized that the solution to the problem was quite simple; cut off the source of that negativity. I'd rather be spending my time happy and making cool stuff. And I'll continue to do that; it's just that the available audience for that stuff just got a bit narrower (which is fine).

This really isn't a problem on the Nexus; that's a testament to both their users and their moderation staff, which I appreciate. Anyway, it is what it is. This post was more to serve folks that currently use the Steam Workshop version in order to make it feel a bit less like I'm outright abandoning them.

I agree that people not reading instructions isn't going anywhere. We're all human; I do it too. The issue is how people react when things go wrong. I simply should not have to accept personal insults related to the work that I do. I'm fine with someone outright insulting my work; just not me. And that's in any setting, in any job, at any place.

Good decision. It must be an IQ thing. People smart enough to venture outside of Steam for finding mods are smart enough to read instructions. Your mod is not for the complete idiots, as it requires a basic level of intelligence to install and use (and uninstall if necessary).

Alright then, if they are people willing to keep up with the mod, I am sure they will get over Nexus and keep up with the mods.

Otherwise, having only one web host as to when the mod is still updating (at last, when in hiatus or "completed" it can be provided over the maxima of options as to allow the wider availability to both time & locations.
(Sound like there will be a war over internet in the coming years, depend of the country but as surveillance and control goes more and more accurate they will be quite some worry as to stay over the main network (I2P being one of the options).

Take care Chesko, and yes, at is said, most people to not bother, after all, why read and then, be able to understand if not required ?
Dura lex, sed lex ?
Adaptation !

Good for you.

There are plenty of immature tossers on the internet but Steam seems to be a Universal Tosser Magnet.

Just tell your Steam subscribers they'll have to get it somewhere else. It's not like there are no alternative sources for mods.

~.~

Well they do seem to have a one-strike policy, so such people get removed very quickly

Anyway, reading these forums it's easy to forget that it's not common knowledge that you do not remove mods with scripts from Skyrim if you do not intend to restart Then again, people who don't read instructions would probably not know it even if they visited here

People who do not read readmes is not a problem that's restricted to the Steam Workshop. It's a very annoying and tiresome issue for modders that will come up no matter where the mod is uploaded and no matter the game.

Heck, it's not even problem restricted to modding, or even the Internet. Dumb people will be dumb.

It also goes back to what Chesko said about a lack of proper moderation on the Steam Workshop forums, and this is far from the first time I've heard complaints about that problem. At the Nexus, or even on this board, that comment would have been quickly nuked and the poster warned or even suspended.

As much as we sometimes grumble about the moderation at this site or at the Nexus, it does serve to keep the worst of the internet riff-raff, like that asshat at Steam, on a short leash at least.

You are right but the 'community culture' of the Steam modding forums seems to have a higher concentration of 'I am the customer, and you are trying to sell me your mod' attitude and mentality than any other sites that hosts Skyrim mods. This may be in part due to Steam's 'Apps Store' approach to mod hosting, or that Steam is a paid service and users there are in fact customers (of Steam, but not unpaid modders who mod for leisure) who just can't 'switch' their 'I am a customer!' swaggering attitude on and off at will. The lack of 'proper moderation' is in part what breeds this kind of 'community culture.' I avoid it for that, and for the fact that the Steam Workshop is not a real mod manager, but pretends it is and tries to be one, and wants to control everything as if mod users are all inept and deters them from having to learn anything about modding. I don't want to mod for users who can't even locate their game data folder and who thinks that cleaning mod plugins 'destroy mods' or that BOSS 'destroys their Skyrim game.'

I'd disagree with that. The neuxs' moderation does a decent job at removing the people like the one in Chesko's screenshot who are abusive.
But I've seen plenty of comments on nexus that are neutral or even polite in tone, but still boil down to: "I didn't read the readme". And even when these people are polite, they can eventually get very tiresome to deal with.

Well, it's like you said, there are people who don't read readme's every where. But the Nexus is actually interested in building a 'community' that is not based entirely around monetary transactions. So they have much better moderation than Steam, and in my experience, users on the Nexus are no where nearly as abusive as those I've seen on Steam. If you 'act out' on the Nexus, you get banned from the site. On Steam you just get your comment removed by the mod author--assuming the mod author is actively 'policing' the comments, which does not stop you from being an [censored] else where on the Steam forums. I spend quite a bit of time in the Nexus Skyrim 'mod troubleshooting' and 'technical support' forums and I see a clear and distinct contrast with what I see on the Steam forums. There are times when Steam forums turn into a hub of complete ignorance, where people are disseminating utter drivel and falsehoods (like the ones I noted). Now that might be in part due to the sheer number of active users on Steam vs. the Nexus, but it's undoubtedly also due to the 'culture' of the 'community' that thrived there that allow these sort of behaviour to perpetuate.