Becuase Bethesda gotta get teh kewl techz! and to be honest calling a robot and or an advanced robot or an "android" (both machines built by man) a slave is just silly they are both built to fulfill certin tasks like any other tool made by man.

Why do I have the feeling that if androids had been introduced into the series by Black Isles Studios in the version of Fallout 3 (code named Van Buren) they were working on nobody would have thought twice about it, much less complained? There seems to be a resistance to Bethesda doing anything at all to expand or add to the lore of the Fallout universe, as if they should be perpetually shackled my the lore limitations of the first two games.

Why? Simple it's human nature we can't help but to play God AI is extremely dangerous yet we are trying to prefect it not

only in FO but in the real world as well . . same thing with cloning it's extremely dangerous yet we can't help but to try

to prefect it.

Look how fast technology is advancing in the real world we can't slow down and it will probably be are downfall it's a

matter of to much to fast and sadly by the time we go to far it will be to late.

Certainly some people generally mistrust Bethesda in their capability to create an intriguing and original story. See The Pitt and Point Lookout, they prove those people wrong (can't really say anything about their other games aka TES, as I haven't played them).

On the other hand I can clearly see Bethesda's need to pop up with some very questionable storylines, simply because of them being flashy and (seemingly) cool. Just look at Harold in Fallout 3, makes absolutely no sense to have him in the Capital Wasteland at all. Instead of coming up with an original story of what could have happened on the east coast, they recycle major plot elements of the older games and shackle themselves to the lore limitations of the first games. See the BoS, Enclave and the Super Mutants.

And their new ideas in the main game lack originality, as androids aren't very creative, don't you think? For example: I liked the (also very flashy) Van Buren idea of a mad scientist that healed ghouls of their sterility through some cruel research much better, as the way it was presented was atmospheric and believable and NOT because Black Isle wasn't Bethesda. Of course the old concept of androids or synths could be presented in a way of the like, but I didn't see Bethesda doing this with Fallout 3. So my hopes regarding good future lore involvement of the institute and their creations aren't very high to be honest.

Edit: By the way, I have a nice idea regarding the AI of androids opposed to the super clunky ZAX computer's AI. Maybe the synthetic android brains are connected to such machines the same way that the Courier's brain is connected with the coils in his head in Old World Blues.

The problem I see with super advanced technology is, that it would make nearly everything possible in the Fallout universe. Also the institute is described as being a beacon of scientific progress in a barren wasteland of hopelessness and despair. How could the researchers even possibly have access to the material needed to create such devices as androids?

@ Tigersquirrel.

I gave a perfectly logical and understandable answer to your question yet you decided not to address it why?

You go on to say Beth comes up with questionable storylines which is a matter of opinion an opinion that comes

across as biased which was the point Morchai made and he is IMO correct.

You have little faith in Beth okay fine but how is the answer I gave you regarding why humans would create androids

not understandable?

Saying you have little faith in Beth is not the correct answer it's simply avoiding the fact that humans can't help but

to play God which is why androids make perfect sense within FO and the answer to your original question.

Because this is the Falloutverse, perhaps second only to the universe of Half-Life and Portal in the lack of common sense among its scientific community.

Seriously though, there may be certain advantages that androids have that hasn't been discussed in-game. In the very least, if the Institute could figure out how to program androids to not get any ideas of freedom without sacrificing their thinking capacity, they'd make much better workers than slaves.

I quoted Morchai first, in my edit I adress your answer, which was understandable. I never said it wasn't. My opinion regarding Bethesda was underlaid by examples.

I understand the logic about having non-sentient workers, but giving them the ability to sleep,eat and go to the toilet is a bit pointless when all your having them do is manual labor, or whatever it is they're doing as 'slaves'. They would be the perfect undercover agents, but It doesn't sound as if they're being used as such.

I'm not sure if they're being used for manual labor, at least not the sort of thing that more primitive robots would suffice for. Armitage was used as a bodyguard and A3-21 was made to hunt down escaped androids.

again, androids were first being put to paper in the 30's and 40's.

Astroboy (while Japanese) is a perfect example of a retrofuture android
Then there is a whole slew of Philip K. dike literature starting in the 50's, some of which would ironically inspire Blade Runner.

The clunky robots we see in some games, have no bearing on what is still in development behind closed doors at the time of the great war, let alone what is developed in the sealed confines of MIT afterwards.

Yeah it was just an assumption. Could they be being used as soldiers then? I'm trying to figure out what the Railroad is so pissed about that they're actively trying to free these 'slaves', and willing to travel hundreds of miles to try and protect just 1.

it could be that the androids are simply there to infiltrate other societies/factions, passing as human. spies if you will.

If the institute has been sealed off all of these years, they may not be to hot on the idea of travel across a radioactive landscape- and may feel that androids are much better suited for interacting with others that they meet.

Actually Phillip K. dike didn't only inspire Blade Runner he worked on the first versions of the scripts too. Sadly he wasn't able to finish it (I hate what Ridley Scott has changed).

Here another very early example (addmited not 50's) that gizmo posted a while ago in this context:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYbKjSCA-fs

Like I said earlier, having them as an Infiltrator would make sense, and it seems as though they were designed specifically for the job, but at what point during infiltration or Interacting with others (as you mentioned) would they suddenly decide "This is horrible I'm going to run away from these evil people.". Neither of these jobs seem particularly evil however.

It annoys me that all they touch up on in Fallout 3 The Replicated Man was the androids that ran away then the androids that ran away when they were chasing the others that ran away. Why did they run in the first place? What's so bad about the institute that a group has formed to oppose them?

Its not about if they see the Institute as evil or not.
They are conscious AI that want to experience freedom.

to not be used as a tool- make their own destiny. Revolutions have been fought for such things.

Also, just because they could be used for what seems like not so bad a purpose, does not mean they are treated as equal or have time to pursue their own endeavors.

And it goes back even farther...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcReykfvqi4

1927... an android, even though the term had not even been coined yet.

Androids have to some capacity, feeling which robots don't? Though this may be a bad thing to have for slaves. You can't punish a robot, but you can an android? Well I guess you can alter an androids perception of free will in a way controlling them while robots you only control them? Just throwing ideas out there.

The word robota means literally "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corv%C3%A9e", "serf labor", and figuratively "drudgery" or "hard work" in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_language and also (more general) "work", "labor" in many http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_languages (e.g.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian_language, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbian_language, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovak_language, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_language, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonian_language, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_language, archaic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_language).

- Wikipedia

My point here is that android = robot. An android is a robot that looks like a human. So I don't really see the logical premise for the comparison. Non-android robots can be designed to be more intelligent and functional than android robots or vice verse. The superficial look of the robot is irrelevant, except that androids can more easily be mistaken for real human (although that's not necessarily true, since we human more often connect with mannerism and behaviour rather than physical appearance - as is proven with how much we love Wall-E over Asimo).

There are other potential uses.

Somewhere in the Commonwealth...

"Gentlemen, behold! I have made love to this machine! And now, upon retrospect, I ask why."

I think androids fit into the setting just fine.

Think: Westworld.

Androids do fit well but the idea of using them slaves over regular robots seems kinda idiotic, I can imagine the institute making a robot that lacks a way to rebel.

Perhaps the androids were developed for clandestine operations and needed a great deal of autonomy to achieve their design goals.

Maybe someone is sitting on a master switch waiting for one of the androids to finish whatever they were programmed to do so he can turn their "free will" off and signal them to come home.

Maybe the androids are perfect slaves and somebody in the Commonwealth is making trouble by reprogramming them to seem like they have free will.

There are many possibilities besides the obvious ones.

This isn't about if androids fit a 1950s retro future. Not everything that people thought about in the 50s means it is in game or means it is okay.

Obviously, androids were not a part of the FO World because they were not in the 2070s/50s idea of the future. They were not there. Not even close.

That world then died in 2077. The survivors dealing with the relics of that world are using the tech that existed in 2077. That is what everyone else has been doing, too. The Enclave, BoS, Elijah, everyone taking and sometimes advancing upon the pre-war tech.

Androids and nothing like it existed 2077, regardless if it could have fit a 50s theme or not. This, is all from scratch. In a perfect world that isn't nuked and turned to ash it may have never happened in the FO Universe. How these scientists survived and kept having offspring who also turned into brilliant scientists and how they found all these resources and advanced in multiple varying technologies, robotics, AI, human skin, etc, is pretty questionable. It more advanced than anything, Enclave, Calculator, it is a god power.

In my experience with rpgs and writing you never want to make something with a god power, unless you are a damn good writer who can do so very well avoiding plot holes, because you need to explain it.

And this is based on some definitive source categorically refuting the possible existence of them, or simply the fact that the very, very narrow sliver of what the old world was like that was revealed in the earlier games didn't include such? The first two games reveal some of what existed prior to the war. What was revealed can't by any means be considered an exhaustive or comprehensive catalog of everything that existed.

How do we know that there was nothing in development towards androids in the 2070s?
We don't. Nothing suggests that there wasn't research of this type going on. Quite to the contrary, their appearance in game suggests there was. There are always things in the pipeline that are not commonplace enough to notice. Even in today's age of information, are you aware of all research that is taking place? Because I have a feeling there is much more advanced research going on than we imagine.

We do know that at least in our world that MIT has a great robotics lab, so its not a far stretch in the slightest that MIT would be the place for this sort of research to take place. The key word here is research. PA and robobrains and Mr. Handy models are (relatively) abundant in the FO world, pre-war; Well past research and development stages; deployed or available for purchase. So of course we see them in game. This certainly does not mean they are the zenith of pre-war tech or any type of end goal for robotics research. If history has taught us anything, we are always striving for that next scientific achievement.

Take that thinking and lock it in a vacuum where research is a constant, for 200 years.
This is one way the Institute as a faction is different from other factions.
The enclave, sure, they were isolated. And the did make improvements on pre existing tech.
PA, and a couple of differing FEV research programs is what they focused on as far as research.

But by and large, their goal wasn't even on the research for research's sake. It was a means to an end for them. Their main focus was sociopolitical,if you can call it that.
Can we say the same of MIT? no.. We can't say much at all about them, other than that they were secure and they have androids.

We aren't deciding if MIT made it from point A to point D here. They did, as evidenced in game.
So why waste energy saying they couldn't or that it doesn't fit and look at how it could and why and how they did it?

It all makes sense now.

Harkness: "My God, I... I remember. I remember it all. From before. Zimmer. The Commonwealth. The Institute."