Cultural Attitudes towards sixuality and Gender Roles

Post » Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:41 am

In general, I'm led to believe that sixuality and gender norms in TES is very fluid.

In Skyrim there seems to be open acceptance of homosixuality and what one might consider (and I hate using this sort of terminology) "standard" gender roles do not particularly apply. A great warrior is a great warrior by merit of their skill and the title of Jarl can be inherited by anyone. Gormlaith Golden-Hilt is one of the heroes who banished Alduin in the past and enjoys the afterlife in Sovngarde. Morrowind held a pantheon that contained both a hermaphrodite poet who basically has six with everything and remarkably skilled warrior god-queen who is the strongest member, martially, of the Tribunal.

But even looking at the influence of religion (for instance, the prevalence of Azura in both Morrowind and Elsweyr worship), I have something of an incomplete picture of gender roles throughout Tamriel. Of interest is the Summerset Isle and Aldmeri attitudes as well as Hammerfell but I'm curious about all of Tamriel. Likewise, attitudes towards sixuality.

This is a subject somewhat in the background of the series. From what I can tell, no major culture has any negative biases when it comes to either subject but I know that could vary from province to province. For instance, and perhaps this is just due to portrayal, I've always assumed that Cyrodil is a more conservative place. But I know I could be wrong. As someone with a vested interest in the portrayal of these things throughout pop culture, I'd love to know more.

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Amber Hubbard
 
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Post » Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:21 am

More than likely these things are simply left untouched for political correctness; even if it is just part of the lore of the people, active discrimination against women/homosixual people would probably be looked down upon, so in-game at least they just have no discrimination here.

Gender roles are still alive and well in some cases, the infamous Lusty Argonian Maid is extremely biased with genders, for example.

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Lizs
 
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Post » Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:42 am

Well, I always felt it was.....vaguely put into the background. The team have always made it crystal clear on matters like this, however, how realistic is it to live in a world with no homophobia? Its something most of us hear every single day, and its disgusting, but its life. Would the game feel more real for adding discrimination against minorities? You could argue they already did, but only with other - worldly animals, noticeably.

Its probably best its avoided, because ultimately its a game, made for fun, not heavy - handed philosophy and realism. However, ive yet to come across so much as a hint of homosixuality, or any other sixuality beside heterosixuality in any of Tes titles. Considering the new addition of marriage, and the increased emphasis on relationships, I find it dismal that Skyrim swerved it entirely. Its not mentioned, in bad or good, no homosixual, bisixual, pansixual etc. Npc's even exist, I think the closest was the touch on the necrophilia alchemist in Oblivion. Why, I have to ask myself, is this continually non - existent? The game doesn't actually stop you marrying a person of the same six, but its never mentioned either. Not in a note, not in a dialogue, not even hypothetically. Even your spouse never mentions anything beyond blissful wedded life.

I doubt very much we will come to a game, where the population is homophobic, because it would be highly controversial. I think the developers basically want to create a game where they wont come under scrutiny for what they made. Its playing safe, but maybe its for the best. The closest you will get is to racial prejudice, which has always frequented. I think had it not the games wouldn't of made a lot of sense, so theirs some boldness there.

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Laura Richards
 
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Post » Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:58 am

A bit curious considering the author. Crassius is fairly pansixual.

As for most of the responses: I certainly understand the general lack of comment in the series coming from concerns outside of the series. Developmental concerns, demographics, etc. But how much do we actually know about in-universe attitudes? Are there any cases where these topics are tackled, even in a perfunctory manner?

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le GraiN
 
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Post » Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:25 am


Well, also to be fair, certain religions in the real world view homosixuality negatively and that's where that belief stems from. In Mundus, there is no doctrine or anything like that which even mentions it so there probably isn't much homophobia going on. I would assume that it's just normal behavior and as the games are limited in viewpoint to that of the player that your character just never met a gay or lisbian couple.

As for the OP: Orcish society in Skyrim is pretty biased. The women are pretty much sold away to other chieftains and restricted to certain jobs around the stronghold. Of course the men have to fight to the death when challenged so that's fairly restrictive.
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brian adkins
 
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Post » Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:37 am

I'd argue that Orcs are extremely pragmatic in nature for the most part more then anything, and try to purge supposed "weakness" where they can. They do nothing to stop an orc female from leaving in they truly want to, aside from being unable to return to the stronghold. Even then, it doesn't seem to be hard to circumvent it in their favor as well.

IIRC, the last time the subject was brought up the Aldudagga was cited, and that the Nords at some point may have had practiced polygamy and did not discriminate as to who married who, and that Nordic chieftains had a variety of wives and husbands around. May have been monkey truth, but I did enjoy it.

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Charles Weber
 
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Post » Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:41 am

Nothing about gender roles has ever been set in stone in the series, as far as I know. There are a lot of assumptions in books and dialogue, of course, but those are not really examples of a coherent worldview. Of course, a lack of "standard" homophobia and rigid gender roles is not in any way unnatural: real-world history shows a massive spectrum of cultural attitudes on this point, far beyond what we today believe was the norm for pre-industrial societies.

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Tammie Flint
 
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Post » Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:11 pm

From a strictly anthropological view, a lot of our society's biases against people who don't behave in hetero-normative and cis-normative ways is derived from the need of Bronze-Age societies to control the sixuality of their citizens. Simply said, from the Bronze-Age up to around the Industrial Revolution, the power of a society was measured in how many farmers it could produce and how many soldiers it could field, so it was in the interest of rulers to minimize the amount of non-reproductive six going on and maximize the amount of reproductive six.

While Tamriel is not free of the same concerns that occupied our own Pre-Industrial ancestors, it does posses a social force more powerful than national ambition: The Gods. The gods are real, and even the Aedra occasionally intervene in the lives of their worshipers. Certainly they punish the 'wicked' and reward the 'righteous'. In game religious doctrines and our own interactions with gods make it clear: the deities of the Elder Scrolls series are utterly disinterested in sixual preferences, gender, and biological six. They hand down their standards and expectations of behaviour and expect them to be lived by without exception. Therefore, governments and priests that discriminate against the faithful who fail to conform to expectations of sixuality and gender get punished by the gods, and therefore learn not to discriminate.

Simply said, there's no discrimination in Tamriel because a person's sixuality, gender, or six does not give you a 'get out of jail free' card from the Gods to hurt them, societal reproductive needs NOT withstanding.

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Isaiah Burdeau
 
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