Because they fix bugs.. can you please explain why others shouldn't use it other than "because i can use command console to hack the game" [censored] excuse.

Okay, go ahead and lock this then. Toss me a warning.

It turned into a "you should use unofficial patches because blahblah" thread anyway.

Oh, I know such a bug exists. I'm simply questioning whether it's within the USKP's purpose to add such an object to the game in order to remove the effects of the bug. Have you done that for malfunctioning Word Walls? Or any other bug the USKP fixes? Or have you simply told players to start over/reload from their last save?

I distinctly remember it being the latter.

"Sling insults" != "Harsh criticism"

People have given clear, easy to understand reasons to why they think the patches are helpful. If after reading those reasons, you still don't think you need them, then don't use them.

Problem solved?

Others? I wasn't saying why others shouldn't use them. I said I don't need them.

Exactly. Others seem to have a problem with that, though. Especially the author of those mods.

Look, you don't want to use the unofficial patches? Fine, don't. It's your right not to, and people shouldn't be telling you that you should. Don't like certain mods or mod types? Then don't use them. However, don't go bashing them, either, just ignore and move onto something you do like.

Personally I half-agree with the OP-- I'm personally not a big fan of overhaul mods by others, just because of the invariable difference of opinion; that doesn't necessarily mean they're bad, just that they're not my thing. I don't mind the smaller overhaul mods, which just alter one particular area (i.e., something like the Dance of Death for its Kill-moves 'overhaul'-- maybe not a 'proper' overhaul, but it tweaks one particular thing I disliked); likewise, I've spent a year working on my own Vampirism overhaul, because I have my own tastes, and want the game to reflect that.

The unofficial patches, I'm half-torn on. Been running them, and not really noticed any difference, BUT I don't really get around to properly playing enough lately to really notice/remember the issues, so... Like Arthmoor(?) I think said, there's always going to be 'bugs' that some people liked (I think the big one is the Resto-loop, from looking at the forums), but with a bit of know-how, it's easy enough to "un-fix" the Unofficial Patches if that's what you like; and I'll personally trust the community enough that if they say the Unofficial patches are useful, I'll give them a go.

My own Mod list is about 50% my own Mods for things others have probably done (i.e., my own mod to 'fix' the Races, my own starting overhaul, et cetera)-- that's partly because I enjoy the modding.

On the whole, I think the best attitude is: if you don't like the Mod, just don't use it. If you want, try and do better-- Modding can be fun, and for some of us it's as much fun as playing the game; and if you can't mod, there's no harm in (politely) suggesting improvements. I think, even if a Mod is outright terrible in its execution, it's always best to err on the side of politeness, and not just down-grade someone's work, especially if it's personal preference. Case in point, some of the 'mature' mods for Oblivion-- I think "Why?!" but, that's someone's tastes, and if they got enjoyment out of it, it's not my problem

You don't understand how any of the game's systems work, so really, you're not in much of a position to distinguish between an unfixable bug once you've encountered it to something like these effects sticking to the player which CAN be fixed at any point after being affected by them.

A borked word wall is forever borked. They can't be corrected after the fact because the scripting leaves no way to know whether or not it has already been broken.

Except when it's JUST slinging insults of course, because "harsh criticism" in this case

is just the politically correct way of disguising the true purpose.

No. Don't use them if you don't want to. What I am objecting to is your invalid characterization of them.

In MY opinion (since you claim to value opinions) all of your reasons for rejecting them are founded on misinformation and false logic. That's pretty much what other people have been trying to get across to you as well, but rather than pause and consider it, you're lashing out at them instead.

You seem to have started this thread so you can argue with people. Play the game the way you want.

I will say that using the console to "fix" every problem, real or perceived, tends to get players into trouble far more often than any mods. A lot of times it seems players use the console out of impatience or frustration, or from a misconception (I should be able to get through that door, dammit! Open sesame!) Much better to actually FIX the bugs that are bugs than just circumvent everything. You say you restarted (200-300 hours ago) because of bugs...I have never had to restart because of bugs. More likely you broke the game yourself with console frippery.

You're right, but it's easy to forgo politeness when you're simply looking to improve the game and every plugin you come across seems to have an issue. After all, it can be frustrating and people don't realize that harshly criticizing the work done by someone else is often viewed as insulting that person.
.. which does make me scratch my head. Some of the more popular plugin authors here are so quick to draw their weapons when people say something negative about their work, but constantly poke fun at the mistakes Bethesda made with Skyrim.

Skyrim was developed by people too, and whenever you complain about how Papyrus works or the Creation Kit does things, you're probably hurting the feelings of the people behind those creations as well.

So there's a difference between adding an object that removes the effects of a bug and adding an object/script to each Word Wall that teaches the player words they should have learned from it, but didn't? Both share the same purpose.

I do break characters because of messing with the console but that doesn't stop me because I can have so much fun with them

No. They do not.

Again, you don't understand one thing about how the setup works. You're not qualfied to asses whether or not something should have been done differently. A borked word wall has no way of indicating to you that it should have been learned because when it becomes borked, it loses the ability to even track that at all. That's why the changelog has bugs tagged with [NR]. Those bugs cannot be fixed on existing save games. They require a restart to take effect.

Now go read the changelog and tell me how many fixes DON'T have that tag.

Fix http://abload.de/img/ebonymailcrossbowfix0uk6u.png or http://abload.de/img/dlc1keeperbootsbugh5s5q.png with the console.

As someone who does a LOT of Scripting in their Mods, I have to agree with Arthmoor here-- there are some bugs which just can't be easily fixed once they occur. I think that's one of the 'dangers' of being a sole-mod-user (or even being a mod-author of a different area): you can lose sight of what is possible, and what is not. Like, I know NOTHING about meshes and textures, so all the cool armor ideas in my head... For all I know they would take three months to make

To a degree, you need to trust those more skilled, especially if there's a few people supporting them. Do some mod authors make mistakes? Heck yes-- I do all the time, trust me But there are limits to what the game can do, and how things work. Sometimes fixing a 'small' issue once it's occurred is a lot harder than you'd think (see my post in the Quick Question thread about abilities-- something that should be easy, turned out to take like 2-hours work to resolve :/ .

With scripts, you need to remember it works on logic and 'memory'-- the script remembers things, and follows a logical pattern; it's like doing Maths in high-school: once you make one mistake, you carry it through and your results are totally off-target, even though everything else was done right.