Strange things that i have noticed in fallout 3... : Fallout 3

» Sat May 01, 2010 8:03 am

-If you report burke to simms, sometimes they will leave the saloon without a fight, but burke will instantly kill simms without even drawing his gun immediately once they are outside. Simms simply falls over dead. Nobody cares that Simms was murdered infront of them, but if you shoot simms, whole of megaton goes hostile on you(but they don't go hostile on burke).

-Wooden doors, or any doors really, are completely unaffected by missles. You cannot use explosives of any kind to "blow open a door", whereas in fallout 2 that was almost always an option. Every character i play has to be a master thief, master scientist and master doctor unfortunately...

-Raiders with base ball boats have no reservations about charging someone wearing power armor with a mini gun. Literally nobody takes into account the armor or weapons you are using.

-Enclave advanced power armor MK2, the best power armor you could get in fallout 2, is worse than the T-51B armor you get in fallout 3 from the broken steel DLC. Incidentally power armor used by the BOS in FO2 was called the T-51B, but both outcast and BOS power armor in FO3 is worse than the T-51B. The T-51B doesn't raise your strength either, oddly enough.

-People can tell what gender/who you are in power armor even though they can't see your face or anything.

-Mason's log entries in the citadel tell you how one of his men wore a power armor suit that protected him completely from radiation, but power armor ingame gives you very little radiation protection.

-Sticky in Little Lamplight says that Big Town is east of lamplight. This is very very inaccurate. And lets not forget he is programmed to attack giant radscorpions with his fists even though he asked you to escort him.

-You can kill everyone in a house, but their bed and items are still owned and you cannot take them without it being considered stealing. However you can loot items freely from raider camps and even rob the citadel blind with no problems.

-Even if you kill Burke, he will still send hitmen after you, as evidenced by the contract note you find on one of the hitmen bodies.

-You can't tell Alistair you killed Burke, or ask him about the contract out on your head, or offer to blow up megaton for him directly.

-Even if everyone in tenpenny towers dies, is forced to leave, etc, you STILL cannot claim the suite there for your own.

-Somehow, Lyons managed to clear out the pitt, despite the fact that power armor in FO3 offers you so little protection that BOS soldiers regularly get killed by raiders or super mutants with assault rifles.

-Sometimes, you may enter an area to find rival factions fighting each other have killed each other, but all the bodies have been looted. Yet the loot is never to be found(not even on the survivor's bodies, even though that would be the logical place for the loot to go). E.G. If enclave soldiers are killed by feral ghouls in the jefferson memorial tunnels, their power armor and weapons can be looted but will simply vanish into thin air.

-If you show up in outcast/BOS armor, outcasts/BOS NPCs have no special reaction to it, except the scripted ones at the Outcast Outpost(Operation Anchorage DLC), instead they will simply refer to you as wastelander or call you by name.

-If you complete the anchorage DLC, you can't tell Casadin about it.

-Frag grenades do so little damage that you can take off all your armor and easily survive multiple of them blowing up at your feet. In fallout 2 frag grenades did major damage to most enemies and would send enemies flying.

-Certain items can't be repaired by yourself, but NPCs can even though there are no spare parts for the unique gauss rifle for example(which also means nobody bothers to use it...). Moria from megaton also has more repair skill than BOS scribes, the very same guys who maintain power armor, whom only have a repair skill of 19. The shady hat cannot be repaired using pre-war hats, even though they look pretty much the same.

-You cant purify dirty water using the water processing plant in megaton, even though thats the entire point of the plant.

-Jingwei's shocksword is essentially a shiskebab that is a pain to repair because chinese officer swords are rare while you can simply make an infinite amount of shiskebabs using the work bench

-You can get the robo-doc in the citadel to heal you, but not heal your radiation. I wonder what they do when one of the soldiers gets radiation poisoning from fighting centaurs...? Even random wasteland doctors can heal your radiation...

-You can't offer to help Daring in tenpenny towners look for Argyle, or even ask him where rockpolis is. There is no ingame way to "find" rockpolis without stumbling onto it apparently(there are no clues or directions listed anywhere ingame that i can find). Also you cant tell him what happened to Argyle if you take care of the ghouls for some reason.

-You get negative karma for killing the tenpenny tower ghouls, despite them telling you pointblank they intend to storm the tower and kill everyone there to take it over. You also get negative karma if you kill the ghouls after you help them reach a diplomatic solution and murder all the humans there.

-Amata doesnt blame you for killing the hostile vault 101 security guard that attacks you first(or all the guards that attacked you during your escape...), but she blames you for killing the new overseer that attacks you first. Whoah, hypocrite much?

-Braun can't log out of the simulation, but you can. It's never really explained why. The failsafe also doesn't target you or the dog either, despite it specifically meant to kill everyone in the sim. if you punch braun after activating the failsafe and after he tells you he doesn't have any power anymore, he can still instant kill you.

-You can't re-lock doors that you unlocked.

-If you attack someone, everyone in the map goes hostile even if they had no way of knowing what you did. Is this the FO3 version of "Stop right there criminal scum!"?

-If you find vault 87 before reaching that part of the main quest, you cannot in any way ask the lamplight NPCs anything about the vault. At all.

-Even if you are wearing power armor, environmental suits, or anything that would protect you from harmful gases, you are still affected by the vault 106 gas.

-Even if you kill amata's father during the scape, amata will repeatedly say that her father is still the overseer when you go back to the vault when talking to other NPCs.

-The BOS soldiers defending the GNR building will refuse to fight when the behemoth is triggered, apart from Lyon's squad. The ones on the balcony will crouch and hide behind the railing.

-A laser rifle will slow down your movement dramatically, even if holstered, much like how a missle launcher does. However an assault rifle of around the same size/weight does not.

-Even with head/sensors crippled, enemies never have any problems finding you. On the other hand you can't even see straight when YOUR head is crippled...

-If you kill zimmer, Victoria Watts simply keeps asking you to give the android component to zimmer instead of acknowledging that the quest is over.

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» Sat May 01, 2010 6:33 am

So...any ideas?

» Sat May 01, 2010 6:04 am

Um, well this is a very long post but I'll comment on the Amata point. She's upset because the overseer is her father and there is a way to avoid violence with him. I agree with most of the rest of the stuff I suppose but a lot of them aren't really important, like relocking doors.

» Sat May 01, 2010 2:24 pm

So...any ideas?

I was starting to reply to each point, but I gave up. You have some valid points, but you are generally trying to compare a video game with reality. You have to suspend disbelief for a video game. Which is the pleasure in it, at least for me. I've never played FO2, so I cannot answer to those references.

» Sat May 01, 2010 2:21 pm

Um, well this is a very long post but I'll comment on the Amata point. She's upset because the overseer is her father and there is a way to avoid violence with him. I agree with most of the rest of the stuff I suppose but a lot of them aren't really important, like relocking doors.

If you kill amata's father during the escape(which i had to do because he instantly became hostile after i demanded the password to his office), there will be a new overseer who will go hostile if you ask him to open the vault. Theres no way AFAIK to open the vault with the new overseer without killing him.

Things like locking doors are both an immersion and gameplay issue. E.G. In FO2 i can relock doors to stop enemies from simply running through them after me. The problem is FO3 doesnt give you any alternatives to opening locked doors whatsoever besides lockpicking them, so every character you make essentially has to be a master thief or you will not be able to progress through most of the game due to locked doors and locked containers.

Also some things break gameplay easily. What is the point of crippling an enemy's head, if he is simply unaffected?

» Sat May 01, 2010 1:46 pm

If you kill amata's father during the escape(which i had to do because he instantly became hostile after i demanded the password to his office), there will be a new overseer who will go hostile if you ask him to open the vault. Theres no way AFAIK to open the vault with the new overseer without killing him.

Things like locking doors are both an immersion and gameplay issue. E.G. In FO2 i can relock doors to stop enemies from simply running through them after me. The problem is FO3 doesnt give you any alternatives to opening locked doors whatsoever besides lockpicking them, so every character you make essentially has to be a master thief or you will not be able to progress through most of the game due to locked doors and locked containers.

Also some things break gameplay easily. What is the point of crippling an enemy's head, if he is simply unaffected?

Well Amata's father has always been the overseer for me and I've never made him hostile towards me, but I'm not sure what I've said to him, although I did ask for the password. I never really thought of it as problem but I can see your point about lockpicking, but I can't say it would be useful to lock a door to keep people out.

edit: Telling the overseer that you will escape without the keys (after asking the first time) won't make him hostile.

» Sat May 01, 2010 12:07 pm

Alright, I'll bite on some of the thoughts I can talk about.... but in advance, I will say that you have to suspend disbelief for a game, as opposed to comparing it to reality....

-If you report burke to simms, sometimes they will leave the saloon without a fight, but burke will instantly kill simms without even drawing his gun immediately once they are outside. Simms simply falls over dead. Nobody cares that Simms was murdered infront of them, but if you shoot simms, whole of megaton goes hostile on you(but they don't go hostile on burke).
I've never taken it outside. I usually off Burke as soon as I am able... I would rather Hardin have his Dad, than not. It's better than the Oblivion system. Not by much, but we can hope that TES V would have a better AI regarding moral issues.

-Wooden doors, or any doors really, are completely unaffected by missles. You cannot use explosives of any kind to "blow open a door", whereas in fallout 2 that was almost always an option. Every character i play has to be a master thief, master scientist and master doctor unfortunately...
I don't like this either. But I think that it would have meant creating destructible environments. I've heard rumor on these forums about some door that is boarded up, that you can blow up with mines and a missile, to retrieve a prize, but don't remember it. I think it was in the northwestern part of the CW.

-Raiders with base ball boats have no reservations about charging someone wearing power armor with a mini gun. Literally nobody takes into account the armor or weapons you are using.

-Enclave advanced power armor MK2, the best power armor you could get in fallout 2, is worse than the T-51B armor you get in fallout 3 from the broken steel DLC. Incidentally power armor used by the BOS in FO2 was called the T-51B, but both outcast and BOS power armor in FO3 is worse than the T-51B. The T-51B doesn't raise your strength either, oddly enough.

-People can tell what gender/who you are in power armor even though they can't see your face or anything.
Perhaps they are looking at how cute your butt is?

-Mason's log entries in the citadel tell you how one of his men wore a power armor suit that protected him completely from radiation, but power armor ingame gives you very little radiation protection.

-Sticky in Little Lamplight says that Big Town is east of lamplight. This is very very inaccurate. And lets not forget he is programmed to attack giant radscorpions with his fists even though he asked you to escort him.
Generally accurate, for a kid who has lived in a hole his whole life. And why he doesn't need special goggles to be able to see in the bright light after being underground this whole time....

-You can kill everyone in a house, but their bed and items are still owned and you cannot take them without it being considered stealing. However you can loot items freely from raider camps and even rob the citadel blind with no problems.
Throwback to Oblivion. I am no programmer, but I hate this too.

-Even if you kill Burke, he will still send hitmen after you, as evidenced by the contract note you find on one of the hitmen bodies.
I tend to think of it as him being the head of his organization (however many that may be), and although you cut off the head of the snake, the body wriggles around for a bit after that.

-You can't tell Alistair you killed Burke, or ask him about the contract out on your head, or offer to blow up megaton for him directly.
Yes, this would have been great. It's surprising how little options you have when dealing with Allistair. Could have been an entirely different set of quests, for the not-so-moral character.

-Even if everyone in tenpenny towers dies, is forced to leave, etc, you STILL cannot claim the suite there for your own.
I suspect this has to do with having two Bobblehead Stands, and how the game would freak out.

-Somehow, Lyons managed to clear out the pitt, despite the fact that power armor in FO3 offers you so little protection that BOS soldiers regularly get killed by raiders or super mutants with assault rifles.

-Sometimes, you may enter an area to find rival factions fighting each other have killed each other, but all the bodies have been looted. Yet the loot is never to be found(not even on the survivor's bodies, even though that would be the logical place for the loot to go). E.G. If enclave soldiers are killed by feral ghouls in the jefferson memorial tunnels, their power armor and weapons can be looted but will simply vanish into thin air.
What do you mean by vanish? I've certainly found a lot of gear, from these no-survivor battles.

-If you show up in outcast/BOS armor, outcasts/BOS NPCs have no special reaction to it, except the scripted ones at the Outcast Outpost(Operation Anchorage DLC), instead they will simply refer to you as wastelander or call you by name.
Yes, another wasted opportunity to join a faction. But then again, you really couldn't "join" any of the factions. Even in Oblvion, which I am currently cracking out on, you don't really feel a "part" of any of the guilds. Like meetings, unmarked quests, mundane escort services, research. This is where role-play becomes involved.
-If you complete the anchorage DLC, you can't tell Casadin about it.
Agreed. See above.

-Frag grenades do so little damage that you can take off all your armor and easily survive multiple of them blowing up at your feet. In fallout 2 frag grenades did major damage to most enemies and would send enemies flying.
With an Explosives skill at 100, if I drop a grenade at my feet, it will kill me. Could also be a result of me dressing for fashion, instead of DR.

-Certain items can't be repaired by yourself, but NPCs can even though there are no spare parts for the unique gauss rifle for example(which also means nobody bothers to use it...). Moria from megaton also has more repair skill than BOS scribes, the very same guys who maintain power armor, whom only have a repair skill of 19. The shady hat cannot be repaired using pre-war hats, even though they look pretty much the same.

-You cant purify dirty water using the water processing plant in megaton, even though thats the entire point of the plant.
It's a mass-producer. Not for individual use. Besides, the BOS thinks you're just gonna screw things up.

-Jingwei's shocksword is essentially a shiskebab that is a pain to repair because chinese officer swords are rare while you can simply make an infinite amount of shiskebabs using the work bench
Search hard enough.... I have over 20 officer swords I am holding for repair of the Jingwei.

-You can get the robo-doc in the citadel to heal you, but not heal your radiation. I wonder what they do when one of the soldiers gets radiation poisoning from fighting centaurs...? Even random wasteland doctors can heal your radiation...
Do you mean when you wake up in the Citadel? He cures my radiation when I wake up at that time.

-You can't offer to help Daring in tenpenny towners look for Argyle, or even ask him where rockpolis is. There is no ingame way to "find" rockpolis without stumbling onto it apparently(there are no clues or directions listed anywhere ingame that i can find). Also you cant tell him what happened to Argyle if you take care of the ghouls for some reason.
Yup, another bummer with helping out Daring. See above about missed opportunities. I actually don't mind that the location is unmarked. Greater rewards for those who like to explore deeply, rather than just on the surface.

-You get negative karma for killing the tenpenny tower ghouls, despite them telling you pointblank they intend to storm the tower and kill everyone there to take it over. You also get negative karma if you kill the ghouls after you help them reach a diplomatic solution and murder all the humans there.
I answered this in another thread of yours. Thinking about the game system for this, RATHER than reality.... (but close to it) you are killing someone else. Regardless of their future actions, you are doing the murdering. Past actions are not in effect here, as you don't know what is about to happen. The second time you do this quest, I believe, is when you, as the player has questions about this.

-Amata doesnt blame you for killing the hostile vault 101 security guard that attacks you first(or all the guards that attacked you during your escape...), but she blames you for killing the new overseer that attacks you first. Whoah, hypocrite much?
Agreed. Depending on my character and how I feel at that moment, I disable the water chip. Screw her.

-Braun can't log out of the simulation, but you can. It's never really explained why. The failsafe also doesn't target you or the dog either, despite it specifically meant to kill everyone in the sim. if you punch braun after activating the failsafe and after he tells you he doesn't have any power anymore, he can still instant kill you.

-You can't re-lock doors that you unlocked.

-If you attack someone, everyone in the map goes hostile even if they had no way of knowing what you did. Is this the FO3 version of "Stop right there criminal scum!"?
Pay your fine or serve your sentence!!

-If you find vault 87 before reaching that part of the main quest, you cannot in any way ask the lamplight NPCs anything about the vault. At all.

-Even if you are wearing power armor, environmental suits, or anything that would protect you from harmful gases, you are still affected by the vault 106 gas.

-Even if you kill amata's father during the scape, amata will repeatedly say that her father is still the overseer when you go back to the vault when talking to other NPCs.

-The BOS soldiers defending the GNR building will refuse to fight when the behemoth is triggered, apart from Lyon's squad. The ones on the balcony will crouch and hide behind the railing.
Cause their pussies. And you're there to show 'em how you do things where you come from.

-A laser rifle will slow down your movement dramatically, even if holstered, much like how a missle launcher does. However an assault rifle of around the same size/weight does not.

-Even with head/sensors crippled, enemies never have any problems finding you. On the other hand you can't even see straight when YOUR head is crippled...
I would assume that they suffer from the the same stats reducers as you do when your head is crippled. If I'm sneaking, I fire one shot, which tends to caution the group. Then I move about 30 yards away from my last position. Your enemy will move to your previous position. Fire again, move. Good for when you are low in health.

-If you kill zimmer, Victoria Watts simply keeps asking you to give the android component to zimmer instead of acknowledging that the quest is over.
She does this too, for a while for me, but then she disappears for a while, then she stalks the hallways of Rivet City without having any dialogue for me. One time I saw something moving in the brush at night, in the wasteland. I hosed down that bush with a full box from Eugene. Found out I killed Victoria!! I celebrated with an Ice-Cold Nuka Cola. She had an android component in her....

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» Sat May 01, 2010 5:12 pm

About the vanishing equip one...in the jefferson memorial tunnels there is a (i think) scripted event where you are running along and suddenly the corpse of an enclave soldier drops down the stairs infront of you. Behind him theres another enclave corpse but this one is stripped empty, but none of the ghouls have his power armor. Theres also the buggy quest in falls church involving rescueing a BOS initiate, if the BOS soldiers are killed before you can start the quest, he is auto killed in his hiding spot, but his power armor, etc all dissapear into thin air.

» Sat May 01, 2010 11:48 am

About the vanishing equip one...in the jefferson memorial tunnels there is a (i think) scripted event where you are running along and suddenly the corpse of an enclave soldier drops down the stairs infront of you. Behind him theres another enclave corpse but this one is stripped empty, but none of the ghouls have his power armor. Theres also the buggy quest in falls church involving rescueing a BOS initiate, if the BOS soldiers are killed before you can start the quest, he is auto killed in his hiding spot, but his power armor, etc all dissapear into thin air.

Here's an extra scary bug with the BOS in Falls Church. If you help those guys, and at least one of them live, they will come to your house and take your gear. They will always choose your best gear. My front door is mined until both of them are confirmed dead.... it was friendly fire I swear!