Brian Wheeler has had an interview with MMORPG.com and he says that you will need to have the vampire and werewolf skill lines to counter them in pvp. http://www.mmorpg.com//gamelist.cfm/setview/features/loadFeature/8237/gameID/821/utm_campaign/MMORPG%20Daily%20Digest%20Email/utm_source/MMORPG/utm_medium/email/eatrack/fenlander@btopenworld.com,8

So I guess the Fighters Guild skill line touted as the natural counter is not that powerful then.

Quoted in case you don't wish to read it all.

Well it doesn't really address how effective the Fighter's Guild abilities are against them, so for all we know Wheeler never developed that tree. Not to mention the development of other effective powers such as fire, holy, and poison abilities. Or how strong a lvl 50 who used their full resources in non-vamp/wolf trees will play against someone who spent resources on them.

Not saying he's wrong, just that its the opinion of one man and only time will tell.

The quoted line reads as "I want those nifty abilities," not "I can't win without those abilities."

I read it as, they are more unique line and not OP. They have more clock time playing to unlock. Werewolf only levels by werewolf kills! So the more abilities he has in WW form, the more time he's had to refine them.

Plus, I assume in WW form, you are locked to WW only abilities. BUt this is all speculation too.

If in fact WW can only use WW abilities while transformed, this would be quite nice for those that have problems with weapon switching

-Or- It could also be away to have 3 bars sorta... 1-2 for weapon swap, 1 for WW abilities while transformed. <--- Hoping this.

This. He's not saying you must have them or you will fail if you don't. He's saying they're impressive and you'll probably want them yourself because they're cool. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPGTizdGwSc.

Come to think of it, I didn't see any werewolves in any of the released youtube vids.

There is a werewolf player visible in one of the youtube PvP reviews.

I have heard quite the opposite actually. Being a Vampire can be a big weakness due to how many templars/dragon knights/fire staff users are out there. Is having access to a couple new spells really worth taking such a huge increase from fire damage? Hopefully it will be because I want my dark caster to be one, but I have heard otherwise.

Oh and from what I have heard, Fighters Guild skills completely own Vamps/Wolves.

I guess the cool thing about being a Vampire is catching people without Fighters Guild skills on their bar. But then the next time they see you, you are dead if they decide to switch in those skills.

I really hate hard counters in PvP... but thats the way they chose to make it.

I am talking about this bit the part in bold and underlined. He says players will want to get the vampire and werewolf skills so they can counter them.

That says to me "You will need to be a vampire or werewolf to be able to compete vs a vampire or werewolf.

Can anyone here confirm how powerful their abilities are compared to the other skill lines ? Now NDA is down I am wondering if anyone has any hard facts to disprove my theory.

On paper they look powerful... and a vampire or werewolf with fighter guild skills would probably be an even better counter.

I'm geting the image of underworld movies, Lycans vs vampires when I read the title

Want != Need

You'l also WANT those nifty dual wield tricks when you face someone who has mastered the dual wield line, etc, etc. That doesn't mean you NEED them.

Even in his next line he talks about the werewolf stuff as tools in the toolbox, not the only tool someone will use.

Werewolfs skill tree looks very op.

Vamps have Selene, good luck.