BOSSv3 Development Thread #4

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?showtopic=1457784

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?showtopic=1474045

http://www.gamesas.com/index.php?showtopic=1486582

Also, this has been said before, and probably is obvious to some folks, but worth reiterating nonetheless -- with BOSS v3, files will automatically be placed after any other plugins they list as masters.

This means, for mod authors, that an easy way to help ensure correct load order and out-of-the-box BOSS support for patches and things like that is to simply add the files you're patching as masters to the patch plugin itself (probably good practice to do so anyway in most cases). For reporters, this means you don't have to report things that already have the plugins they should load after in their list of masters.

So, for instance:

Since ETaC - Complete 3DNPC Patch.esp already has ETaC - Complete.esp & 3DNPC.esp as masters, this file doesn't need to be added to the masterlist. (not intending to pick on you fateoffate, as SS said, thank you for the very clear report. Just is a good example to use to convey this point )

Don't worry about it. Actually I'm flattered. It just BOSS load the master in incorrect order so I post that =p

That's not something BOSS is concerned with as many plugins could want the masters in another order. Unless the order between the masters needs to be that way outside of the plugin header

The Requiem patches don't seem to be ordered like the mod author posts on his description page.

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/42538/?

Below is a list with all other Requiem patches. Most of them contain a recommended load order on the front page.

DahakaMVI, those load order suggestions are for v2, I'm sure authors are not aware of how BOSS v3 works yet. If all the plugins have a master of Skyrim.esm, they will not need to be loaded in any certain order at all. They could all be scattered throughout the load order and sorted by the BOSS v3 criteria based on what they change. They will run that way independently of each other with no conflicts.

If any of his patches use Skyrim.esm and Requiem.esp as masters then they will all load after those two masters. Then what I said above still applies because they can technically load anywhere as long as they are after Skyrim.esm and Requiem.esp. Once a patch requires another master like Dragonborn, then that becomes another requirement. Then it will have to load after Skyrim.esm, Dragonborn.esm, and Requiem.esp.

All of the over 50,000 mods on the Nexus will use the v2 load order suggestions. In the early phases of BOSS v3 I'm sure this will come up multiple times.

Hi , not to butt in to this interesting conversation ....

I could Always count on version 2 Masterlist to Sort mods in the Exact same way each and every time i ran Boss. I could place any mod any place in my list just by editing the Masterlist myself.

With Version 3 this is not possible, doesn't MOD index come into play at some point? Say I Resort and BOSS scrambles the list and a MOD like SKY UI that was always at mod index "0C" near the top of ESP's suddenly gets shifted way down the list , wont this cause havok in a save Game?

Guessing With the new way(V3), once we have a Mod loadout it would be best to never add, update, or sort our List? And play the game till one wants to Start over again? (made your bed now lie in it). OR i really don't understand any of this...lol.

And as for the Official Texture packs I cheated , made one BAIN installer for all 3 , Deleted the ESP's, and BSA's so Wrye can track them, and i can see all conflicts for the 14,000 + files!! ON that note Wrye is getting a little slow doing things, but its now tracking over 30 GB Data Folder...so I am patient with it. Yes the game still plays great!

Great job as always guys, Not possible without all your Dedication!!

I really hope the new BOSSv3 isn't an app that you can only run once , per save file, since quite often a new mod will come out, and not being an expert of any kind, I use BOSS to put that NEW mod in my load order, where it probably should be. Which, I suspect, is how a lot of people do it, a lot don't get all the mods they are going to use for a play through and put them in all at one time, they add more and more mods, one at a time, testing them, and probably using BOSS each time they add a new mod .

Though, as I think about it, the only real thing that is probably affected much by the exact order in which things load is the leveled lists and such. With the new BOSS bashed patches are probably going to be much more of a necessity, since some people wouldn't use bashed patches and mods would overwrite each other a lot, with changing load order frequently in a save game, running BOSSv3, things IN GAME would change, if a bashed patch wasn't used, probably?

Not sure of the complexity of doing something like this, but...

For BOSS, would it be possible to add an option of 'snapshotting' your current load order, and then place a selected mod in the best place of that existing load order. Basically, instead of sorting entire load order, just insert a selected mod in the load order, then moving everything below it down one slot in the load order?

Reason this comes to mind, not being very knowledgeable about WHERE to place things in my load order, I do read the mod pages, but still unsure where to place things, and still new to modding, so I am not using the beta BOSSv3 yet, and now when I run the current version, I constantly have to move all my unofficial patches back up into place, after testing/trying a new mod. Would be nice to be able to select placement of just 1 mod in the load order.

Load order changing on subsequent sorts is a bug that has already been discussed and is being addressed.

With version 3 it isn't necessary at all.

What does a MOD index mean to you? Skyrim does not use such a thing. Mods are numbered dynamically depending on what you load.

Say you used BOSS v2 and you insert a mod into a group such that it is now 15th in your load order, or (0F)xxxxxx. All your mods shift down and their place in your load order is increased by +1. Whether or not you uninstall a mod and shift all the mods up by -1 or the BOSS team decides to move all your mods to a new location Skyrim will do exactly what it is programmed to do. Drastic changes like this have not affected save games in the past. Save games are more affected by things being baked into the save game and then the mod is uninstalled. Skyrim is more likely to handle it correctly when it's installed but has changed it's position in the load order.

Same as above. When you install a mod, all mods loaded after it are shifted down one. When you uninstall a mod they are all shifted up by 1. This has been the case since Skyrim was released. With v3 you install a mod and sort your load order same as before nothing will be different. The benefit is that BOSS now looks at the plugin and positions the mod better then just arbitrarily placing in an ordered list in a text file.

That is possible by just checking to show BSA conflicts. I'm not aware that it isn't working as intended but, once the refactoring is done if that routine needs updating I'm sure it could be looked at.

Right but what happened before was that people added it to a userlist until it was added by the BOSS team. Now you don't have to do that.

Leveled lists are still a misunderstood by most people. Anyone modding their game should be using Wrye Bash to manage the leveled lists. It won't be a necessity, it already is if you want the game to work right. When you add or remove mods in your data folder you should rebuild your Bash patch and run any SkyProc patchers. This has always been the case so if someone is not doing that they they are doing it wrong.

For those who don't use the Bashed patch they are just misinformed or just don't know better. I get a lot of users in forums I read or forums for things I support that simply over think things too much. They read in the TES5Edit thread, or the Wrye Bash thread, or the BOSS thread, to do something and see somewhere else that they shouldn't. Then they ask should they do it. There really are stupid questions and that's one of them. Wherever they read not to do something that the authors of the utility explicitly state should be done probably don't know what they are talking about. They didn't write the program so how do they have more creditability then the author of the program. Again people just over think it too much sometimes.

With v2 we placed things in the best spot possible. However, I always had doubts because I could see what records were being changed. The mod may have fit in several groups. However, it would be placed the best it could and then moved if a community member found a conflict. That's exactly what is no longer needed.

Again it could fit in one of several groups in the old v2 masterlist. Version three takes that kind of guess work out of the picture because it has a rudimentary way of looking at the changes made and placing it in the best spot. Version 3 also offers ways to tweak the position if it's needed.

In the past some authors really knew the mod and could make valid suggestions. Unfortunately there are still a majority of authors that just tell people where to place it so they didn't have to deal with complaints. Now with v3 that doesn't need to happen. Even though this is not the place to be talking about Wrye Bash in depth, it needs to be able to mitigate conflicts. Some conflicts simply can not be resolved by placement.

The 2.0 Unofficial Patches sort consistently where they are supposed to be because I have updated their placement myself in the past if it wasn't done by someone else already. Since you say you are not using the BETA of BOSS v3 then I assume you mean you are using BOSS 2.1.1. If you have to move all the 2.0 unofficial patches each time with BOSS v2 then something is wrong. Either they were recently updated, you have unneeded userlist entries, or you are not using the English version of the unofficial patches. So rather then moving them each time just troubleshoot that.

if a mod is at mod index 05 and the sword from that mod is in your save as 05 and it gets a new index dosent that leave lost references?...see i really have no clue...lol

Still cant wait to get BOSS back inside Wrye but as i am about to settle on my Load list probably wont Run BOSS again for months/years. And not as important as I have to run the ReProccer, that in turn wants to run BOSS (it pulls up BOSS but sits their) needs me to click sort, then close BOSS) then ReProccer runs.