The classes that we have access to right now is fine, but we need more variety in this game for this to be a p2p title. We need more class options, the 4 that we can use just isn't enough. It adds a small spice of life with the 3 specs for each class, but that's still just FOUR classes. More variety needs to be added into the mix, IMO.

Does anyone agree with this? I just can't see myself not wanting more variety as I play this game for months. With 4 classes, it's just going to get old. And with min/maxing information becoming available even now, we know that there is a max spec that offers max healing, damage mitigation, and damage dealt, so soon that will be either mandatory or hugely encouraged for your character for end game pvp/pve content.

So essentially that IS just 4 classes/specs, regardless of 3 options, there will always be optimal.

The variety comes from being able to learn pretty much everything. Adding more general skill lines will add more variety, freedom, and customization than adding new classes.

You're exactly right, but consider my counter to that thought: min/maxing. Whether TES fans want to admit it or not, but websites like Elitistjerks.com and MMO-champion.com have already begun to min/max classes for optimal (enter roll here). It's already begun, and this is beta. Soon that information will be common knowledge, which 6 spells and which ultima to use for the optimal tank, healing, and DPS setup for each class. Effectively nullifying any "variety" you thought you had, because guilds and groups will most likely start requiring this.

Like I said, take from an MMO veteran with over 6 MMO's under his belt, this WILL happen. You can choose to ignore it if you want, but that variety is only in your head, my friend.

That's up to the player to be a sheep or a wolf isn't it?

classes won't prevent or even slow down min/maxing. it actually usually leads to classes just flat out not being used. Only 6 MMOs. Want me to go into how many I've played? You are not special with your knowledge.

Each class can be built as a different 'role'. Meaning I've seen a heavy armor tank sorcerer, a medium armor sword sorc, light armor healing sorc, light armor staff dps sorc, heavy armor tank nightblade, healing nightblade, ranged nightblade, melee nightblade, etcetc. While another class might add something, there are plenty of unique builds for people to try, IMO.

Of coarse it's up to the player, but it's not about being a sheep, it's about being the most effective you can be in order to provide your group/guild with the optimal performance from you, the member they rely on.

I certainly intend to do this, and I think there's nothing wrong with it. That doesn't mean the game is fine and doesn't need more variety, however.

It's definitely a valid concern. Hopefully though, there'll be a number of 'viable builds'. GW2 has a similar skill variety system although it's tied to weapons and gear more literally - and while Beserker is the uber-raider gear of choice, there are many, many viable builds depending on preference and play style.

I don't mean this offensively, but I just think you guys (this community here in general) puts way too much faith in the MMO community, lol. You're more than likely going to be met with rude remarks or just no invites to dungeons or anything like that if you have a ridiculous build that you play "just cause I can man, it's my choice!". No one is going to say "Yeah, sure bro! We'll carry your sorry ass even though your build is gimp and our healer is out DPS'ing you! I can appreciate individuality!" ---said no person ever in an MMO.

Again, I don't mean that negatively, I'm just saying how it is, and how it will be, if you don't understand the fundamentals of class design.

Classes will not alleviate the issue at all. It will just add one more factor that could be cut out as min maxing ultimately ends up devaluing classes. With more skill lines you may devalue skill lines, but never an entire class as the class can learn those skill lines.

Believe me I've met many of those players in my time. And there will always be an epic build of awesomeness that beats everything else. But provided there are several viable builds (alternatives that don't gimp you or the group and also achieve the same ends) then there should be enough variety to go round.

As for the uber-raiders? They can do one. There are plenty of friendly and mature players to group with

Well, that's the problem isnt it. Are you going to play the game for your enjoyment or for others? Personally, I find much more enjoyment playing with a group of missfits having fun than with a pro-group demanding 10 more DPS. But that's just me.

This is not meant as inflammatory, but just a serious question: As you have already stated that you intend to max your character for the benefit of your guild, then I guess you are going for pre-defined "max" builds anyway? So why is variety important to you if you never use it?

That's a line far too thinly drawn, IMO. People can be mature, fun people who are interested in maxing their character for optimal performance. I'd like to think I am one of those people, heh. I'm not a dike at all, but if we are doing challenging content, you need to come prepared. That's just all there is to it.

And variety is important to me because I'm an altoholic. I like making new toons, but with just 4 classes, that will run dry very quickly. I won't level up more than 1 of each class to 50. Why would you?

The character slot is 8, not 4, for a reason, IMO. I think they intend to make new classes as the game goes on.

And you can be more than prepared without conforming to a single build - if there are a number of viable options. Which with this system, there really should be.

I'm sure there will be more classes down the road, but right now these four along with all the other skills do a good job of covering most rpg archetypes.

It seems like I'm in the minority here. Which is just as well. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one! I agree, the archtypes are covered though.

I suspect the goal here is a convoluted rock-paper-scissors setup as far as 'bests' go. I know that's what I'd shoot for if I were designing the game. A given class and build might be the best for tanking certain bosses, for example, but for other bosses another class works out better. Then you come across bosses that do crazy magic damage, and light armor tanks become desirable.

Though they can't possibly make every build equally viable, it wouldn't be that difficult to make content (and budge skill balances) so that no one class or build is ultimate in every situation.

I think some of you guys are just theorycrafting and probably didn't play the game enough or didn't mind looking well to the skills, classes and passives. Even more after the light armor tanker.....really? Light armor does not come with + spell resist, even the passives give only 6% resist, wow so Overpowered!!!!

Reminds me other day i was discussing on the zone chat with a guy that believed his tank be the most awesome of all planets because his summons would tank other mobs and because he would kill things more fast because spells are the most powerful skill in the game, so that made him a superior tank. Right now my impression of some players is a sad delusion about the gimped classes they will build in the most inexpressive roles.

4 classes seems a little to thin for me too, but then more classes in the future seems inevitable with the 8 character slots provided, I too came to that conclusion. You are not alone with your thoughts.

i thought there were 8 slots for 8 characters- in my mind that was; hm, how many races can you play in the game,

then again, i'm not a pro-gamer, i play games i find have an entertainment value to me,

working i do anyway, and studying i do anyway, no need doing it too hard during my free time too.

*edit, i forgot the topic;

yes, more classes would be nice-

but which classes could then be added, which wouldn't inherit features from the other classes, and which wouldn't get OPd compared to the other classes?

I was actually referring to Anullment and morphs, regarding Light Armor tanks.

Regardless, my point is that I suspect it's a high priority design element of the classes and skills to prevent sweeping superlatives.

If you are into min/maxxing and FTM, and that's all you want to do, it won't make any difference how many potential character combinations are possible.

I understand there is variety to the game in other forms. But I honestly think it is a little underwhelming. More classes that have unique abilities, maybe they just couldn't come up with something unique enough to set it apart. Either that or split these class trees up and have them out in the world so you don't actually pick a class at the start but you can learn whatever. And then add more... I don't know, it will be fine for me on release, but I do hope they add to it.

The variety comes from being shoehorned into playing a hybrid because of easily reached soft caps/diminishing returns via their 'overcharge' mechanic. You can technically play anyway you'd like though, isn't that what Elder Scrolls games are about!?