Stating a fact to support that F2P isnt really free. Not complaining about my spending habits.

You WILL see me complain at Cryptics/Perfect Worlds Entertainment incompetent expenditure of the funds I and others gave them. Be real, who would think a bug that makes your attack damage just simply not register that exists in beta, still exists today is not a top priority to solve.

Its an strategy. And the most times it suceeded at other developers( i dont write examples.. hitted trion and EA hard). Even if they had to shoot down the game before release incause of fail changes.

Thats the plan i guess.

Buy-to-Play games suffer the same problem as Free-to-Play games, which is why I coupled them both in together; they have no regular income, so they have to find other methods of making money.

You can take what I say at face value or you can simply read my signature and have a nice day. At the end of the day, I don't really care what he does with his money; I'm just trying to offer some insight. If you want an example of a successful subscription model, search for World of Warcraft; perhaps you've heard of it? It's been going strong almost ten years now.

Call of Duty doesn't need a Cash Shop either. Do you know why; becuase it isn't an MMORPG.

Also you can search Eve Online... Although I no longer play it, it has been successful for just as long.

Welcome into the club. i was an pWE /Cryptic Supporter to until they messed it up.

Welcome to the world of mmos. Don't let the weirdos on this forum convince you that a sub is justified because of the updates. Your initial reaction is correct- a subscription, especially on top of actually paying for the game is "madness".

I have never played a subscription based mmo that provides updates equivalent to a whole new game every six months, and what often happens is that they will charge you extra AGAIN for an "expansion".

Know also that there are (good) mmos that just let you buy the game and play without the subscription but also provide all the extra content and updates that supposedly require a sub.

That said, TESO is an awesome game and well worth playing, its just very expensive compared to playing other mmos that let you buy and play without a sub.

Is someone unwilling to pay for a service really a "customer"? And if so, can't a company afford to lose them?

I agree with you wholeheartedly - which actually points out how parasitic micro transaction models are- look at things like Mass Effect 3 MP and the ability to spend money to buy crates of gear.

I don't feel like digging it up, but, what's the quote from the guy at EA that was talking about how you can charge $1.00 to instantly refill ammo in games and watch people hammer away because, in the heat of a game, you can always justify spending the dollar to get that next kill...

it's insidious and parasitic by its very nature.

Wasnt it monthly small episodes now? Well. i am still looking forward to this games release. Saves tons of money for me.

Did... you actually bring up Dungeon Keeper as a POSITIVE example of free to play? That game is an abomination of it's namesake with incredibly long wait times for every action you take and incredibly highly priced shortcuts. It is a prime example of everything that is wrong with mobile free to play.

Where is that "beating a dead horse"gif ?

No we are not. I have never heard of a free download monthly fee model game... maybe one exists, but doubt it. The equation in this and any other conversation is - subscription is set $X a time period, 'free' to play is PAY $X when I want how I want (and if I don't I will be chastised and shunned in that game because I cant compete).

Welcome to the world of MMO gaming, subs have been around for years.

Yeah.. my bad was to post the betakey spreading raptr site in FB. Now its full of "but.. i want it free.." lol