Good read about UI and API. Anyone that missed it.

Post » Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:45 pm

http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/21cgkf/zos_paulsage_followup_recent_changes_to_api/%C2%A0

FOLLOW-UP: RECENT CHANGES TO API ZOS_PaulSage mod 3:01PM edited 3:01PM in Psijic Developer Discussion As many of you know, there has been a lot of discussion over recent changes to the API. As you are probably aware, we recently publicly clarified our overall UI modding strategy, and our reasons for making changes to the API. To reiterate, our goal was: to keep the playing field level for our competitive environments.

The initial release of our API was intentionally wide open in order to test the boundaries of what could be done - which is exactly what happened. We saw things which necessitated that we change the API. When we made the changes to restrict our API, our goal was to make sure you couldn't see more information about your enemies than we intended. But we also found that certain events could be used to allow add-ons and macro programs, used in conjunction, to do many things which otherwise should require player skill. For example, it was trivial to create an add-on "listen" for a debuff, and be able to remove this debuff automatically - or to create an add-on that allowed group members' adds-ons to report their status through chat allowing party members with the same add-on to automatically cast heals.

In order to keep the playing field as level as we could for competitive PvE and competitive PvP at ship, we removed the ability of the API to access this functionality. We left as much of the API open as we felt we could. If later we feel changes or additional functionality is a good thing without damaging the overall game, some features may be re-enabled. We do not want players writing scripts that play their character for them, and that was the direction ESO UI modding was headed.

Our changes to the API were exclusively about keeping the playing field as level as we could in a competitive environment, not about keeping the game immersive or trying to make sure people could not see numbers. However, it is certainly true we don鈥檛 natively add icons to show buffs and display timers. You might ask why?

First, we feel a clean and unobtrusive UI is a key part of The Elder Scrolls Online. We have worked to keep many things off the screen that were not absolutely necessary. As an example, we have broken down buffs and debuffs into a few key effects. If you puncture armor, you can see that overlayed on the health bar of your opponent as a 鈥渃racked鈥?graphic. If you or your opponent is powered up, you will see a bright aura around the health bar. If you are suffering from a DOT, you will see arrows representing a decrease overlayed on your health bar. Further, we have animation, sounds, and particle effects in world to give you further clues as to what is happening. We believe these actually represent your state and that of your opponents much more clearly than icons. But why not have icons?

To put it simply, icons are for another game with different controls and a different purpose. The controls of our game naturally tie mouse movement and looking around the world together in a mechanism reminiscent of previous Elder Scrolls games. We don鈥檛 have a free mouse where you can get information about what the icons represent by hovering over them in the heat of battle. Also, showing timers through icons isn鈥檛 what we wanted. Part of the skill in ESO is situational awareness and seeing when events are happening in the world and in some cases on the UI. Another reason we don鈥檛 show buff/debuff icons is that icons appearing and disappearing on the screen looked bad, especially considering ESO has shorter duration debuffs and buffs that would be constantly appearing and disappearing.

Finally, our UI and game isn鈥檛 built just for experts, min-maxers, and number crunchers. Our UI is built to have broad appeal while still providing necessary information to be successful. Could more be done to improve the information? I think so. But every improvement has to be weighed carefully against other upcoming features, improvements, or new content added to the game. We are constantly working to improve ESO 鈥?which will continue as long as people are playing the game 鈥?and we will continue to iterate on the UI and information presented to you.

Lately we鈥檝e been quieter on the boards and in public as we head towards launch 鈥?but know that we are always listening and reading. We very much appreciate constructive feedback. We are looking very forward to seeing you in Tamriel on Sunday.

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Bad News Rogers
 
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Post » Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:12 pm

I like the cut of his jib.

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Noraima Vega
 
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Post » Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:45 am

Thank you for pasting that. Its WoT, but that is 1000x better than me reading from that site.

I like their moxy. They are sticking to the guns. Gotta respect that.

And i quite like how things are going thus far.

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JR Cash
 
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Post » Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:09 am

Thank you for posting. Love the way they talk about the game mechanics! ^^
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louise hamilton
 
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Post » Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:51 pm

I don't care if they go with icons, or other visual indicators, as long as those visual indicators are actually there and they are visible. They are currently not there, and often not visible.

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candice keenan
 
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Post » Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:08 pm

Sounds good, thanks for posting.

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Lisa Robb
 
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Post » Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:54 am

You mean kind of like this:

We have worked to keep many things off the screen that were not absolutely necessary. As an example, we have broken down buffs and debuffs into a few key effects. If you puncture armor, you can see that overlayed on the health bar of your opponent as a 鈥渃racked鈥?graphic. If you or your opponent is powered up, you will see a bright aura around the health bar. If you are suffering from a DOT, you will see arrows representing a decrease overlayed on your health bar. Further, we have animation, sounds, and particle effects in world to give you further clues as to what is happening.

As someone who was honestly quite sick of 2 bars full of buff icon in any given raid. I like this approach. Still I think they need to approach food buffs a little better / more distinctly. Maybe like a chicken leg or cup watermark on your effected resource bar. It will come. Auto-consume would also be quite nice.

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Jesus Lopez
 
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Post » Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:23 pm

Serious question on the healthbar indicator things:

Do the DOT arrows show up on my current target for my DOTs, or ANYONE'S DOTs?

Do the HOT arrows show up on group frames? If so, do they only show my HOTs, or anyone's HOTs? Will the arrows appear bigger or more prominent if there are multiple HOTs on someone?

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Tai Scott
 
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Post » Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:36 am

Yes if you cast a dot on something you see arrows on its health bar or least you did in last beta.

Not sure on the group frame, but that would be nice for anyone using a resto staff. I do know that the arrows do not appear bigger. But it does show more of them. ie. if I ate a health regen food it gave me one arrow for teh small boost. If I cast regen I believe it showed 2. Cannot really remember if they stacked and made 3 though going to assume they do as I believe it goes by overall potency of your total regen. Curious if anyone knows that for sure myself.

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Deon Knight
 
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Post » Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:39 pm

As a healer, I just need to know the following by glancing at party frames:

-When one of MY HOTs is on someone.

-When of MY HOTs is no longer on someone.

-When MY HOT was consumed to direct heal instead.

-When MY damage shield is on someone.

-When someone has a purgable debuff.

I don't really care how it's done, as long as I can get the information in a half second glance. If I need to spend longer staring at healthbars trying to discern nearly imperceptible visual effects than I would with a "normal" MMO UI, their design intent (allowing me to watch the action, not bars) has not been adequately reflected in the final product.

When I'm DPSing, it'd be nice to know:

-When MY DOTs are on something.

-When MY Debuffs are on something.

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noa zarfati
 
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Post » Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:14 am

What I mean, is will it tell me if my target is DOTed, or if one of my DOTs is on the target? If it's the former (target has someone's DOT on it, but not necessarily mine), it's not useful in anything but solo or very small group stuff.

I really don't care about buffs and debuffs beyond those that I apply/remove. I really NEED to know what's going on with those. Animations and particle effects don't come close to cutting it in large chaotic battles with lots of different animations and particle effects flying all over the place.

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Klaire
 
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Post » Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:11 am

That is fine for the player who can see is own health bar with those effects. However the current UI does not allow for anyone in the group to know that this is happening to their group member. This makes having group cleanse abilities kinda worthless since we cant see whats going on with our group. In mass pvp this problem is only magnified

Also since this is the 2nd time paul's quote has come up, here is the link to the other discussion of paul sage's comments for anyone interested. http://forums.bethso...rom-mmo-champ/?/a>

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Monika Fiolek
 
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Post » Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:49 am

Sounds like a real battle. Also: awesome. I can see how micromanagers will hate it. Remember that everyone you are fighting has the same 'disadvantage' though..

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FoReVeR_Me_N
 
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Post » Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:50 am

I think you meant to quote someone else. Your reply had nothing to do with my post.

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Sarah Knight
 
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Post » Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:14 pm

I agree you should probably get those indicators for the group and we probably will. Perhaps it was how the API was written that it did not distinguish between group(basically giving all same info as yourself) vs just anyone. Which was probably a mistake on their part hopefully to be rectified soon. He did say some things may be put back in and new stuff added. Not all is lost.

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Cody Banks
 
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Post » Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:25 pm

This is where communication comes in. Tell you what i'd do if i was main healer(or when i end up main heal cause its gonna happen at some point) establish before had how information is relayed to me:

* Everyone sets me as main /whisper.

* If you need me, drop and run if out of my range - /whisper first if possible

* Be smart, let me know of a status on you ASAP

Those 3 steps are what spring to mind.

I've had to solo 18 man alliances before, with outside damage dealers. All with FFXI's redonculous UI that makes vanilla TESO's look like hardcoe sci-fi by comparison. Wasn't easy, but could be done with prep work of the most basic variety and set communication.

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ezra
 
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Post » Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:07 pm

Cant really comment on FFXI since I did not know what it was until I googled it. But correct me if im wrong but 18 man alliance would be a pve fight and not a pvp fight correct?

But what you suggest is ludicrous. It can cost half of the stam and magicka bar to cleanse a dot and it may not be worth it at times to remove some dots and debuffs. If I am in the middle of a 10 on 10 fight and a melee is chasing a target you suggest he stop what he is doing (standing there getting beat on while his target runs away and gains some separation) to tell me he has a dot or a debuff that I may not have the action to remove. He would be better off cont his assault and just eat the debuff/dot. I cant imagine being a healer in a 20 on 20 fight getting spammed with whispers every second (or if on vent/mumble ext hearing people yell about it) on every dot and debuff being placed.

I feel bad for anyone who tries to pvp without voice chat they are at a disadvantage to begin with but the gap is increased even more so with this.

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Ian White
 
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Post » Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:01 am

You are right it prob will be fixed but I do not think it will be fixed unless people cont to be vocal about it. I just hope they fix it before this problem does major damage to the products reputation.

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Beast Attire
 
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Post » Thu Mar 27, 2014 10:55 pm

You are correct, FFXI was full-on PvE. And you are right about that strat not working in a PvP fight. Have to forgive me, still having to wrap my mind around the fact that plans have to be made for that as well in TESO.

I'll stand by the base sentiment tho, communication is a must. And some laid out plans; if A happens, do B, if C, then do D, etc. If i learned nothing else from that game, its your team can do anything with the basest of everything-if you have a plan and communicate needed alterations of it on the fly.

Anyways, just my thoughts on it.

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Jennifer May
 
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Post » Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:07 pm

You are right about communication being a must but I have a feeling this system is going to turn away a bunch of people who think they they can pvp casually and find out they cant

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cutiecute
 
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Post » Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:34 pm

Prepare to be disappointed. The current UI doesn't indicate the difference between effects cast by you, and effects cast by someone else. Raid/group frames show nothing but your allies' names, and how much health each ally currently has (no numbers, just a solid red bar that moves as they lose health.)

-Travail.

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x_JeNnY_x
 
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