So... Tell me all your feelings on those subject, about which games were best for mages, or worst for mages and why.

And keep in mind, I haven't really gotten very far in Skyrim, I'm so unsatisfied with the game- in great part because of how it handled magic and removed roleplaying game mechanics, that I spend so much time modding, possibly for years, that I almost never play the game, so there may be a lot I'm ignorant of.

I'll start this with... While I think Skyrim turned out better than Oblivion as a whole, I also think it's the worst TES game for mages. Oblivion removed lots of spells, and Skyrim removed even more. Daggerfall and Morrowind... They had an amazing amount of spells. Also while I have ambivalent feelings about the old system where you had to sleep to regain magicka, and like the thought of slowly regenerating magicka, I didn't like how it regenerated so fast in Skyrim.

Skyrim's reanimate spell is interesting, and the staff mechanics in Skyrim I think helps a lot with a pure mage experience... But other than that... I think the best TES game for mages is either Daggerfall or Morrowind- perhaps tied, with Oblivion coming after those two, and Skyrim in last place. And while I found the removal of spellmaking quite egregious, what I found much worse, was the entire removal of all mobility related spells, and in spite of Conjuration being more than strong enough, it's very limited array of summons, sure some of the summons are awesome but far too limited.

One of my biggest complaints about Skyrim is, if I want to play a Battlemage or a Magical Knight, the games mechanics/story/lore/guilds/mechanics/etc/ are mostly sufficient for that, but if I want to play as a classical squishy glass cannon who never relies on natural physical strength to overcome challenges... While I suppose it's technically possible, the games mechanics don't support that very much, and it's very jarring.

Where as a Battlemage will feel at home in just about any guild other than the Thieves Guild... And maybe other than the Dark Brotherhood... A more classical type of mage, has a lot less potential guilds to join, that don't seem... Odd.

And don't get me wrong... I like my... Battlemage esque character. Well... My battlemage-like character, invests almost entirely in health, and only summons flame atronachs and uses self healing magic for combat support, so maybe more of a Battle-Conjurer or something. That characters fun to play, and vanilla Skyrim doesn't feel too out of place as my Battle-Conjurer character.

But uh... My more classical mage character, whose too inept at physical combat to rely on anything other than a crossbow or staff, who relies about 80% on magic, and 20% on stealth, that character feels out of place in the world of Skyrim. Because the lack of mobility spells, the lack of utility spells, the lack of more diverse summons... And ultimately, how the Imperial Legion and Stormcloaks are such an important part of Skyrim, which I find, blatantly makes the experience better for people who play as warriors.

Now you may say "Well being warrior guilds, of course they're more prone to massive territory wars than more intellectually inclined magic oriented guilds are", and sure that's a valid point, and you might even mention, that the Imperial Legion, and Stormcloaks, even have a few members who are mages themselves, and sure that's also a valid point. You may also say "The Imperial Legion/Stormcloaks aren't EXCLUSIVELY just WARRIOR guilds!" that's also true, but they are still warrior based.

However, in Morrowind there was the choice of mage oriented House Telvanni, warrior oriented House Redoran, or thief oriented house Hlaalu... And they had conflicts with each other, even a few territory wars. Now sure, the territory wars weren't as heavily portrayed as the territory wars in Skyrim. They were much much much less a part of the gameplay itself.

And yes, it's not just people who play classical mages who feel screwed over by Skyrim's guild system, people who play classical thieves also often justifiably have similar feelings, cause this Empire vs Stormcloaks thing doesn't revolve around thief or assassin type characters either. You might also say, "well of COURSE Skyrim has less magically inclined characters than Morrowind does! Because it's SKYRIM!". And that is a valid point...

However I have a rebuttal of "How come Skyrim has no similar equivalent of House Telvanni- albeit less politically powerful?". Sure, the Imperial Legion and Stormcloaks are some of the most powerful factions in Skyrim, and I'm in fact, not opposed to that. I still however, find it very very very jarring that you can't even join the Thalmor, or Forsworn... Who are at least, a little bit more magically inclined than the Empire and Stormcloaks.

And also just because the Empire and Stormcloaks are arguably Skyrim's strongest factions, doesn't mean weaker factions would just accept being ruled over, without a fight. And sure, the Forsworn are extremely hostile to both of them, and the Thalmor are somewhat hostile to both, and very hostile to the Stormcloaks, but this never becomes potentially a major part of the game.

What I'm saying is this- I wish the game had some sort of alternate quest, where you could wipe out both the Stormcloaks and Imperial Legion, as you an incredibly powerful individual, help some formerly weaker faction, rise to power, and overthrow them.

You'd be fighting outnumbered, and possibly outgeared, against enemies with more structural, and political advantages, but if your character was powerful enough, you could carry a weaker faction to victory. You might say "But that makes my character feel unrealistically powerful, or so powerful it breaks immersion"... Depending on who your character is, you have a point. But if you're character is strong enough to do the incredible feats other TES protagonists are known for- obviously a spoilerific topic, then logically you should be powerful enough to overthrow entire empires, especially with a little bit of assistance.

I like the Thalmor and Forsworn more than the Stormcloaks and Empire, because they are more interesting, and they are somewhat more magic oriented. The Thalmor having so many Altmer... Of course they would be, and I like how they often have one wizard being escorted by two warriors, in their classical trio.

Now... The Imperial Legion is... Perhaps SLIGHTLY more magically inclined than the Stormcloaks, as they have a few wizards which the Stormcloaks don't have. (According to a quick look at a TES page about Skyrim's Imperial Legion anyways).

My disdain for Skyrim isn't that it's not Morrowind-2 even though me being a Morrowind fan is extremely obvious. You know how I see Morrowind? I don't see it as Oblivion and Skyrim are massive failures for not being Morrowind-2, but RATHER, that Morrowind was just such an amazing game, and used so many amazing ideas, and so many creative resources went into Morrowind, that we might never see any world as interesting as the world of Vvardenfell ever again.

Not because of anything the Devs did wrong, but rather cause they just spent all their more creative ideas on Morrowind, which isn't their fault in any way. Oblivion forced you into a goodie-goodie two shoes guild if you were a mage, which was quite jarring, but not to the level Skyrim was jarring when it came to mages and guilds.

(I absolutely hate it, when the game forces my villain, or flawed hero, to do something kind, just as much as I'd hate roleplaying a heroic character, and being forced to slaughter helpless innocents, but I'll spare you a rant about Oblivion's mages guild).

Now I'll give credit where credits due: Skyrim is a great game to play a warrior, the devs did a great job making warrior characters more enjoyable to play, but I feel that all came at the expense of mage based gameplay.

And no "Then JUST don't play a PURE MAGE! Skyrim isn't made for them!", is not a solution to that. And yes, sure you can beat all the quests, and experience all the content as a pure mage technically, but that's not all that matters. Just because you can very easily beat the game as a pure mage, without struggling, and without power gaming, doesn't mean magic isn't watered down, or isn't broken.

Just because pure mages are viable in combat situations, doesn't mean magic isn't broken in Skyrim. Just because there's a few incredibly well made fascinating spells in Skyrim, doesn't mean Skyrim did magic as a whole well. I believe Skyrim's biggest problem, other than it's more simplistic factions, less complicated storyline, and total removal of attributes... Is how, playing a mage in Skyrim... Feels so much less interesting than a mage from prior games.

I've never played a mage in Arena or Daggerfall so I'm not qualified to speak about those games.

Between the other three games I think Oblivion was the best for Mages. Casting spells with a two-handed weapon or a weapon and shield equipped was sheer genius. I liked having to earn access to Enchanting. Varla and Welkynd Stones were a nice touch. I thought Oblivion took many of the nicer features of magic found in Morrowind - spell creation and a wide range of spells, ect - and made it all more fun.

I thought playing a mage in Morrowind was less fun than playing a mage in Skyrim. Morrowind's lack of magicka regeneration was aggravating to me. Combine that with spell failure (which I would have liked under different circumstances) and magic in Morrowind was just too frustrating for me to endure for an entire game.

Morrowind, had a long list of cool spells and two actually interesting factions designed for Mages that didn't have terribly written plots. Worst? I honestly don't know because I kinda liked the magic systems in Morrowind, Oblivion and skyrim.

I've only played morrowind, oblivion and skyrim. I'd have to agree that i enjoy magic the least in skyrim, however the gameplay aspect of holding the spells actually was a huge improvement imo. But the lack of spell diversity makes it repetitive.

The best was probably oblivion imo, or atleast thats the one that was the most fun to play. The regenerating magic pool really made it viable to rely on destruction. Also it had spell creation that was fun to mess around with. It also had a much more diverse conjuration pool.

Morrowind's magic system was great for breaking the game, however i didn't really find it all that fun until even after i was packing around a ton of potions of restore magic. Also it seemed like you were forced into wearing heavy armor for actual enchanting. i did really like how the world required some magic skill to navigate, especially the mushroom towers

Edit: actually i love playing the magic in skyrim, the actual shooting of the spells is a huge improvement. Destruction just seemed weak at the end game (without alchemy buffs) and the summoning pool consists of four summons plus zombies

Skyrim was the worst, due to a lack of spell customization. Meaning you were stuck with the same spells, and with limited means to increase your damage output.

Oblivion is largely an improvement on Morrowind's system, but the automatically regenerating magic pool is a big decider on effectiveness. Say what you will; you'll be able to take a bit of a break to recharge. Can't regen magic in Morrowind without actually resting or potions.

I think Skyrim was the best for a mage. Sure, there was no spell customisation, and few spell effects, but the spell mechanics were the most fun. Morrowind had a fantastic amount of magic to use, but the game didn't seem to work so well with it. Magicka not regenrating amoungst other things made magic a trial. Skyrim was really fun as a mage even if I would've liked a bit more to play with, and it really needed spell-crafting.

I think Oblivion was the worst because it didn't have the variation of morrowind, and didn't have the mechanics of Skyrim. Don't get me wrong, I still loved playing as a mage in Oblivion, but I prefer Skyrim, and the shear scope of Morrowind magic made it better.

I think the next one should use a magic system very much like Skyrim's, but including spell crafting and with a whole lot more effects. That would be my ideal!

I think Oblivion is the best, since you could wield weapons and a shield and still cast spells. Plus, spell customization and enchanting were far superior.

Skyrim was the worst, hands down. No spell customization, spell takes up a hand slot, enchanting is weaker in some aspects, and spells don't scale. The last item is the biggest problem, since it forces you to be reliant upon high investments in either alchemy or enchanting at higher levels.

I think Skyrim had the potential, it just wasn't realised. If they had only included all the previous spells, and allowed us to fine tune the effects then it would have been wonderful. I'm so tempted to create a magic mod for Skyrim that not only reintroduces most of the lost spells, but also makes each spell a unique effect, so rather than having Oakflesh, Ironflesh, Ebonyflesh, etc you simply get Oakflesh, which can then be adapted as your magical skills improve.

Imagine walking up to a spell alter and being able to use sliders to fine tune the power of the effect, the casting cost, and length of time it lasts. The higher the skill, the further you can change it. Sure, some spells will simply be a reduced cost, but others would have more variables. This not only allows all spells to be valid at any level, it also gives you, the mage, the ability to fine tune your playstyle.

I don't like playing pure mages in TES at all, because spells have to be bought. If you can't find or can't afford the spells you need at your level, you'll be stuck with spells that are too weak for your level. Finding weapons is easy, but you can't loot your enemies for new spells. So all my mage characters also have a weapon skill as backup. In Morrowind it kinda works because of spellcrafting and because there are so many spell merchants, but in Skyrim spells are so hard to come by, that they have to scale for magic to be useful. But they don't. There's a mod for Skyrim that makes you learn spells automatically as your skill level increases. That makes magic a viable alternative. Still, it might be unfair in the other direction because warriors don't get new weapons automatically as they level up. Spellcrafting with a spell altar could be a good solution.

The spells in TES also aren't that fun. My favorite game to play mages is DA:O. It is more fun to play a mage there, than anything else, because the spells are so varied and imaginative. Such as "crushing prison", that locks your enemy in a cage of energy that slowly damages the enemy over some time. The spells can't fail, but some enemies resist some spells. Magicka regenerates slower in combat, and you have staves and enchanted robes as backup weapon and protection. Enchanted items that can be used as weapons exist in TES too (staves in Oblivion and Skyrim, and various enchanted items in Morrowind), but the staves in Oblivion and Skyrim have to be recharged with filled soul gems, and in Oblivion enchanted items run out of power really fast. They aren't really working as backup weapons for mages, so magicka has to regenerate fast (which it does). In Oblivion I pick up staves and use them until they run out of power, then throw them away or sell them.

I like the failing in Morrowind, because of course someone who isn't that good at magic will fail at times, especiallly in the stressful situation that is combat. As for magicka regenerating/not regenerating the most realistic would probably be that magicka, health and stamina will only regenerate when you aren't actually fighting, but that can also be frustrating from a gameplay perspective, so I don't really have an opinion there.