Lets please not talk about rather this is a good thing or a bad thing in this thread, as that won't go anywhere productive, as individual peoples feelings vary wildly on this subject. Some people hate the thought of a genre shift, some people love it, and some are somewhere in the middle. Some people have positive views of TES genre shifting, other people have negative views of it genre shifting, and others have views somewhere in between.

Some people like Skyrim the most because they feel it makes their reflexes as a player matter more, and some people like Daggerfall the most because they feel it adds a lot of strategy in character building, and this heavily suggests to me, that the TES series did have a genre shift, although the point of this thread isn't talking about your favorite or least favorite TES games, or your personal feelings on the matter, just rather you feel the TES games have made a genre shift or not, for better or for worse or for neither.

I'm not saying genre shifting is bad or good or neutral or whatever, I just personally the more I think about it, feel like the games have made somewhat of a genre shift, and I'm curious how other people see this. I don't want this thread to turn into a debate of how the TES series should head or what was the worst or best TES game, consider this thread to simply be me asking if you think the TES series genre shifted... For the sake of science for lack of better term. And I want as many peoples opinions on this as possible.

I'd rather this thread revolve strictly around if you think the TES series has changed genres, I don't want to hear about rather you think a genre shift in the TES series is good or bad in this thread- because I want this thread to simply act as a poll, without arguments about which game is the best or worst or whatever.

Anyways... Do you think the TES games used to be primarily exploration focused RPGs with action elements that eventually turned into an exploration focused action game with RPG elements? If Daggerfall was 60% RPG and 40% action game, do you think that Skyrim is probably 60% action game 40% RPG? Please keep in mind I don't think these percentages are remotely close to being exact, just using that as an example to ask a question.

No, I don't think there has been a genre shift. The games have always been action/RPG hybrids. It was true of Arena and it is true of Skyrim. The ratio of character-skill-to-player-skill in the games has shifted over the years in favor of player skill. But I do not consider this change to be a genre shift.

I too think that they have always been hybrids and while they might be more RPG or more action game depending on the game it has never bothered me. It's not as if it went from huge sprawling RPG to stage based platformer with three skills and one race lol. Bethesda's not that dumb even if they do make other questionable decisions.

my thoughts exactly

At what point would you consider it a genre shift?

I see a progressive change, away from character customization and character-skill-based gameplay.

In the first three games, generally speaking, only physical combat was governed by player skill, and even then, the outcome of your "hacking and slashing" was largely determined by character stats. In the last two games, character stats serve only to determine the actual damage you do with your attack; the player does the rest.

And other gameplay processes, which used to be based on character skills and stats (like Speech, Lockpicking, successful Spellcasting, Potionmaking, and Enchanting) are now player-skill (or no-fail-at-all) mini-games.

The games don't play the same way. Daggerfall and Morrowind have a completely different "feel" than Oblivion and Skyrim. While they have elements in common (player-directed combat being most notable), there's a definite change. Skyrim and Oblivion have a more "visceral" combat feel, as if one is actually "hitting" the opponent. Some people like this a lot, and consider it an improvement; that could be debated either way, but it's definitely a shift in the nature of the games.

Whether it's a change of "genre," I'm not sure. I think maybe the genres themselves are changing, so it's hard to see the foreground against the moving background. Or something like that.

Edit: I voted "other," because I don't think the main shift in the games is the one being discussed here.

Within the confines of the way you've voiced this question, I feel like I should vote 'no". However, I am going to vote "other'.

I've been playing TES 1: Arena since January, and to be honest, I find that I tend to play this oldest of TES games in a more 'action' sort of way. I'd say it's more like 50 / 50. In Oblivion and Skyrim, action is rather rare in comparison, the way I play. My characters tend to walk in these later games (rather than run around or fast-travel) and in this way, enemies show up rarely because spawning points aren't packed with tons of monsters & NPC enemies. My characters also tend to mosey around towns a lot, spending their time exploring, buying & selling. Appreciating scenery. Listening to a quirky conversation... listening to frogs croak and birds sing, etc. I also some emphasis on things which don't actually happen in-game, but happen to fit the storyline my character is going through, if that makes any sense.

I would say in these later games, the way I approach the game, action vs. RPG (like there's a difference) is more like 10 / 90.

Uphill and against the wind, both ways.

Ha ha I deleted that part, but I'm glad you caught it.

My thoughts are the same as this. So I second Pseron Wyrd on his thoughts.

The only major shift to happen is from a focus on character-skill to player-skill, and that "shift" has been happening with all games. In fact, I'd argue that Daggerfall had a bigger emphasis on player skill than character skill compared to Morrowind. I think it's a good thing - tabletop RPGs make much better use out of character-skill focus than video games ever could anyway, but nothing (aside from physical sports and the performing arts) can hold a candle to video games in challenging player-skill.

In terms of RPG choices, Elder Scrolls games have always had a simplistic approach; not a bad guy? Don't join the bad guy factions. Like magic? Join the faction for mages. Where other games like Fallout have multiple outcomes for each quest based on character choices, the characters choices in TES are whether or not you even do certain quests. Morrowind arguably did this the best by having tons of different factions to join, but the vast majority of quests you do in each faction are extremely simple compared to the later games. 90% of Daggerfall's gameplay is crawling through procedurally generated dungeons, and 90% of the randomized quests in Daggerfall are just variations on that theme. The later games had stronger quests in exchange for fewer factions. I daresay it was... quality, over quantity!

In terms of hand-holdiness, that's another trend that's been happening across gaming as a whole. Some of it is from the gaming audience simply growing larger - they can't tailor make a TES game solely for the old-school RPGers (of course, they do open their games up to a great modding community). And some of it is simply from the devs and technology getting smarter and simplifying situations they never intended to be difficult in the first place. Difficulty in Daggerfall mostly came from wandering around labyrinthine and samey dungeons and unintelligent (level-scaled) combat encounters - Daggerfall was basically a first-person roguelike in a lot of ways, come to think of it. Oh, and menu systems that are difficult to understand.

I'd say exploration wasn't a focus for the games until Morrowind. Oblivion took a step back with the dungeons, but Skyrim was a huge return to form, rewarding exploration with a location's backstory, better loot than in Oblivion, and the best-looking locations yet.

Oh christ one of these threads again.

We were actually having a reasonable conversation, though. Did you have any thoughts on the subject?

Well, at least it isn't another "TES is dummbing down" thread xD and people have already stated that TES always had the action part in it, which is true.

Gonna quote this cause I'm too lazy cold to type it up in my own words. Doesn't necessarily mean that I like the change in relying a lot more on player skill. Then again, the past games did have their own way of relying on player skill, what with having experience gains based on the "difficulty" and such. I guess I just don't like the way it's done in the newer games.

Yes.

Quest markers, the compass, level scaling and no hand-placed items diminished the exploration aspect of the game greatly.

Removal of classes and attributes made the game less like an RPG for me.

I don't really have more to say. It may still be the same genre, but the difference between Morrowind and Skyrim is huge. The whole feel is different. Morrowind is like the average looking nerdy girl with intelligence and personality, while Skyrim is the hot blonde. The six is awesome, but conversations are shallow and often stupid.