They are obviously murderers. Murdering is wrong, but they are not killing people in vain, they have a reason behind it. Also a given, the dark brotherhood chambers are dark and scary, but that follows being a mysterious group.

This thread contains SPOILERS from here on out. Read at your own discretion.

If you look at the targets that initiate you into the Dark Brotherhood on Oblivion and Skyrim....

The oblivion target was a man who had no more will to live. He just layed in bed waiting for death to come. You put him out of his misery.

In Skyrim, the child asks you to kill Grelod the kind. Spending five minutes in her presence could easily tell you why he left and wants her dead. She is making the lives of innocent children miserable, and she refuses to let them leave and be happy. Would it not be best to just...take her out of the situation?

What do you think about the morality of the Dark Brotherhood?

IT is not so much that quest, as the questline itself. plenty of the contracts are for people who someone simply wanted dead for no reason.

Your verdict?

Edit. I should also mention there was a contract that wanted to claim each person's life. If there was at least one reason, it would be that. The Dark Brotherhood does not walk the streets taking the lives of anyone and everyone they wish.

It would be like calling Deathstroke evil or even Death itself evil. They perform a job for money. Now on the individual level sure any Dark Brother/Sister might be evil or they might be in it for the money. If anything the organization is Neutral as they dont kill for the hell of it (although like i said any single member might be a murderer or torturer in their spare time) but they do it because they are paid to do it. If you go by TES IV (the best representation of the DB to date) then they also take money to not kill such as in a mission where you are supposed to "fake a death" (although at the price of another life but such is the way of Sithis)

They are pure evil. Realized that when they wanted me kill Narfi! Man, seriously?

Because they were paid by someone to kill him...they had nothing against the beggar

Yes I agree with you completely.

go talk to the members of any sanctuary, most kill because they like killing (including but not limited to: antoinetta marie, Gorgon gro-bolmog, Cicero, Festus Krex), they couldn't care less about the money, and others do it because its the way of their cult.. so yes, they are evil

remember though, when you are given that contract they come right out and tell you "we don't normally do this kind of thing.. took some heavy negotiations"

But in the end they did do it not because the guy begged them but because he paid (in money and blood)

go play through both Oblivions and Skyrims Dark bortherhood and talk to all their members.. they could care less about the money, the money is just a way to pay the bills.. they do it because they either simply love killing and harming others, or due to their Worship of Sithis..

your making it sound like they do it for the money, which could not be further from the truth..

Not a single one ever says that they dont care about the money. Plenty of them just enjoy their jobs but so do plenty of guards and soldier throughout the games who also kill people. If anything the Orc from Oblivion says he kills targets because the Night Mother pays him to do it which he enjoys. They all get paid for their efforts, if they didnt then they wouldnt be in the Brotherhood. They would just kill people randomly as serial killers

BS, they are in the Brotherhood because its a religious Cult built entirely around murder, not for the $$$.. its not a job to them, its a religion

To SOME of them! If someone approaches a murderer and says "hey i am part of this group that kills people as well...wanna join? but you dont get paid or anything, we just tell you who to kill" then that murderer would tell them to shove off. When they approach as say that they pay them to kill then that convinces them because if someone will pay you do what you are good at then that is better then doing it for free. If anything we have only talked to members of 2 sanctuaries in as many games with "journal knowledge" of 1 other sanctuary via Cicero. Since that isnt even a valid fraction of the total numbers of sanctuaries throughout Tamriel and Astrid's group dont even care about the Night Mother anymore id say that means you are generalizing a massive group with a stereotype you cant prove.

But i dont feel like arguing today. it sounds more like you have a personal issue with the guild rather than an unbiased opinion so i dont know why you are even bothering

I have nothing against the guild, I am just accepting the facts, the thread is "Are they evil", to which I have explained they are


Seems you just love the guild so much you are trying to make yourself believe they are not evil by denying the facts we have seen since Morrowind, when they truly are

I wouldn't call them truly evil. They're nothing more than mercenaries getting paid to kill. They're only in it for the money.

Well, considering that they are a bunch of lunatics that kill people for money with ranks such as murderer, slayer etc. Undead guards, etc. I would say yes, the principle in and of itself (besides the murder part) maybe not. But you never get any motives behind the kills from the contractors or anything like that, except maybe a few in Oblivion. You make peoples lives miserable. So I want to say yes, if there is an evil faction in TES that you can join and in the end lead it's the dark brotherhood. The black sacrament is quite the ritual, they have a horse with glowing eyes, everyone there enjoy killing, it's more than just a job to these people, they have creepy hide-outs with creepy riddles. Shady leaders (Lucius Lechance as an example, unless you asked him about certain things like rumors, though sometimes he would be creepy about those too).

In Oblivion they have a creepy statue (I used to like the thing before I found out what it was) that gives you contracts. I would say that they didn't seem evil in Morrowind (well ,not super evil, they also had cooler gear) anyways, but Oblivion established them as a bunch of sick individuals, maybe even more so than Skyrim.

So I would say yes, worshipping sithis and joining his murder-cult is Evil.

I can't call the members lunatics. Sure some of them are [censored]s, but most of them are happy to see you after you've joined them. Meeting most of them in person and without a uniform on, I would say that you probably would have no clue that they're a murderer. In fact, I bet they are some of the nicest people you would meet, and with that charisma and good attitude makes them even more efficient killers.

Most of the contracts I'd have to say is karma. A lot of the people you are killing will attack you on sight, or they are just plain mean to others. A small handful of contracts contains killing innocent people.

I can't say the Dark Brotherhood are good, nor can I say they are evil. I'd have to say ultimately they are neutral at best.

Depends on your idea of evil. Personally, I see the Dark brotherhood as a weapon that people choose to use so, yea, not "evil" in my book.

To be fair though, the innocent and kind are typically not the type of people that others want dead. And even those usually have done something to piss someone off.

A lot of people say the same about psychopaths, doesn't mean that they aren't psychopaths, and once we've esptablished what they do and enjoy, I think we are beyond "they can't be evil, they're so happy to see you". I bet to a lot of people Hitler was a nice guy, and that's one of the reasons people joined him. Being nice and being good are two different things. And I'm sure if they weren't in the brotherhood they would still murder as a hobby.

I don't know, some contracts I can understand, being a jerk and deserving death are two separate things though. And if you look at the dialogue coises that you occationally have they are always more evil looking (I remember quite a few from Oblivion, can't remember if you had all that many in Skyrim). So to me there is no question that they are evil, how evil every individual is may differ though. But "they're nice people and karma is a [censored]" does not justify them in any way shape or form.

I'd say they are pretty evil. At best, they are amoral. They are not neutral. A neutral individual does not kill innocent people. They may kill in self-defence or in a war, and they may be quite brutal under such circumstances. They may also kill people where the morality of it might be barely justifiable. But they don't go around killing innocent beggars, old men, etc.

End of the day, the DB is quite happy to kill perfectly innocent people for money. That is the very definition of evil, in my opinion.

evil

Yeah... I'd say they are evil, but then again that's pretty obvious.

The majority of them, if not all of them, have never cared for the coin. They just want a reason to kill, and want to be surrounded by those who feel the same/are the same in mindset. I suppose the majority join the DB simply because having a reason to kill makes them feel a little less guilty about what they do, and a little more fulfilled... Doesn't change what they are though.

They've got all the justification they need. They made a contract to kill someone for a specified amount of currency. They never advertised themselves as anything other than assassins for hire, albeit a fairly cult like band of assassins. It's a job and that's it.

The question of morality applies to the people that hired them in the first place because it is irrelevant to the killer.

Reminds me of the conversation you have with Thane in ME2.

"My employers killed them. My body was only the tool they used. If you kill a man with your gun, do you hold the gun responsible?"

"My gun can't decide right from wrong. You clearly do."