Looking for lore on the mythic creatures in TESIV.

Post » Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:09 pm

I say TESIV instead of Oblivion so as not to get confused with Daedric creatures. What I'm looking for is any information pertinent to http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Creatures#Monsters found in Oblivion. The more esoteric, the better.

Specifically, I'm looking for info on Imps, Minotaurs, and Ogres. I'm sure there's lots of Morihaus-related info on Minotaurs, but I don't know where to look. And I don't know if there's any info on Imps or Ogres and their origins; they seem a bit less beastlike than Trolls or Will-o-Wisps (angry swamp gas).

Do you think that the Ayleids brought the practice of enslaving and training goblins over when they settled Cyrodiil? ... worse still, do you think modern Goblin "culture" could be a perversion of ancient Ayleid culture? Perhaps goblins are related to Imga?...

User avatar
FoReVeR_Me_N
 
Posts: 3556
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:25 pm

Post » Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:45 am

Goblin training is a Summerset thing, though the Alyeids may have practiced it. That said, a popular idea for awhile was that the Goblins in Cyrodiil were devolved Alyeids, but that stretches into YMMV territory. As for Ogers, they fall into the category of the Goblin-Ken, which is more or less scholars sweeping the so called "beast" races into one giant category, which includes goblins, gremlins, and the Orcs. Beyond that, not much is generally known about Ogers in general. But yes, they're all considered to be more intelligent then trolls for instance, but that bar isn't exactly high.

User avatar
Oscar Vazquez
 
Posts: 3418
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:08 pm

Post » Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:11 pm

Yeah, I'd say Ogres are about as intelligent as Goblins. No idea about Gremlins. I wouldn't say trolls classify as goblin-ken, and aside from some dev jokes, they aren't intelligent. Goblins are said to be native to both the Summerset Isles and to Akavir (one ponders how it could be both). Malacath watches over goblin-ken. Orcs are only classified as goblin-ken by really racist or ignorant folks in Tamriel. But they obviously do share some qualities.

User avatar
Cheville Thompson
 
Posts: 3404
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:33 pm

Post » Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:56 pm

Ogres are racist Nibenese depictions of Colovians. Well, that doesn't quite work when you meet them in game. But I do ascribe to the view that "Goblin-ken" largely covers races that have similar origins to all the "civilized people" of Tamriel, but have been pushed out to the margins and have no hopes of being accepted by the fancy folk in hats and carriages. Orcs needed a divine event to bring them into the cities without chains. Ogres are (beast)people, and I'd guess probably a much larger relative of the extinct/emigrated highland Imga.

Imps are intelligent, as evidenced by their use of http://uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Impish#Impish. My proposal is that they're quasi-Daedric magical constructs - Scamps, but Nirn local - that have been neglected and grown up as a feral breed outside the cities.

Origins of the minotaurs, and their fall from royalty... now I'm sure I read something maybe a year ago that was precisely that, but since I can't remember it and the search function on this forum is useless, there's tangential Minotaur lore in the https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tXH50WbXRR1Hrb00Q0n63vQqzXuNvUyxqjjuNmafvdI/ (Godspell II) and http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1480381-belharzarita/. Basically, history can't decide whether they're all the descendants of Morihaus (and implicitly, Alessia) or whether Belharza was one of many minotaurs around at the time, that happened to be directly descended from the gods.

User avatar
anna ley
 
Posts: 3382
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 2:04 am

Post » Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:13 pm

I suspect that ogres are one of the native beast races of Tamriel. All we really know about them is that Malacath watches over them and claims them as his.

Minotaurs are briefly described in Brenus Astis' Journal.

...though once thought to be intelligent. They are social creatures, often appearing in groups numbering twenty or more. The largest male dominates this clan structure, and seems to have breeding rights with all females of reproductive age. Younger males will often challenge the older, dominant males in a fight to the death. Their horns locked, the two minotaurs will wrestle until one can no longer continue. This often....
[Missing]


That they may have been more intelligent in the past lends credence to the theory that they're descendants of Morihaus, given the second ruler of the Alessian Empire was named King Belharza the Man-Bull and everyone knows Alessia's affair with Morihaus. Being the descendents of a god, Morihaus's descendents would be less divine each subsequent generation, hence why the minotaurs of old were supposedly intelligent while the modern ones are seemingly not.

Land Dreugh are interesting because previous lore states that a Dreugh's early life is spent on land. However, given the lack of mature, normal Dreughs in Cyrodiilic waters, and the Land Dreugh's large size compared to its aquatic counterparts, I hypothesize that Land Dreughs may be a neontonic offshoot of Dreughs, something like a reverse http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axolotl; instead of undergoing metamorphosis into an intelligent water-breathing creature, they remain land-based and non-sapient.

User avatar
Ashley Campos
 
Posts: 3415
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:03 pm

Post » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:09 pm

Wait, so a possible explanation of the Imga is that they are a form of goblin-ken? I never thought of it that way. It would certainly make them unique, and could explain why they revere the Altmer so much. They might want to reclaim the glory days before the fall of Trinimac. So, instead of just intelligent apes, they would be somewhat smaller, fur-covered ogres?

User avatar
Yonah
 
Posts: 3462
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 4:42 am

Post » Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:43 pm

I believe the categorization of Orcs with other lesser beasts like Ogres and goblins was mostly racist, especially since we know the relationship between Orsimer/Malacath and Altmer/Trinimac.

Malacath's dominion over Ogres does have some interesting implications, though. Perhaps they're only a part of his domain for being spurned and ostracized creatures - or perhaps Ogres (and Goblins?) went through a transformation from glory to excrement similar to Trinimac's. Interesting to think they might be a perversion of Imga.

I don't think Imps are related to any Daedra; they strike me as a "born from nature" sort of creature, in the same category as Spriggans, Ice Wraiths, or Harpies. They might be under the dominion of a Daedra lord, similar to Ogres, though. Peryite, mayhaps?

User avatar
Spencey!
 
Posts: 3221
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:18 am


Return to The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion