I have noticed that periodically NPCs that I converse with have the text "Who's There?", with the only reply being "goodbye". My character is not invisible, chameleon, etc.

After doing some digging around the web, I have found that this could be a result of the Better Clothes mod that comes with MGSO. Pulling it up in Enchanted Editor, I do indeed find a Dialog Responses/Info Greeting that matches "Who's There?". (I don't understand why this type of mod would have any dialog / dialog response entries, but what do I know...)

I have seen this online referred to as a dirty dialog reference, but TESPCD does not detect it as such (and I do have the "report dialog text" checked in the options for TESPCD), nor does Tes3cmd clean it.

I don't know enough about the editor to simply delete the reference in Enchanted Editor, so I thought I would ask here for advice. I am actually surprised that TESPCD does not show any dirty dialog references when I use it to check all of my plugins / masters, seems like I should see something with the various threads I have read about the subject.

Thanks for any information!

Hi,

it really is dirty reference. To clean it, check the box next to it in EE and hit button with cross in the right part of the editor. Then save the plugin. Or if you do not feel like doing it yourself, I can send you cleaned esp (IIRC it actually contains more dirty references than just the dialog).

There is a version (now obsolete thanks to MCP) that allows you to change Argonian female clothing boobage through dialogue. The other version also has some dirty (tee-hee) dialogue, that can be removed.

There are also some edits to a door in Seyda Neen. It leads to a storeroom where some BC underwear lies.

Thanks for the offer and the information, I'll send you a PM.

What WH-Reaper said and the solution is http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1473376-whos-there-goodbye/page-2#entry23008563.

Thanks for the link. Correct me if I am wrong, but that thread seems to indicate that the cause is still not known. Will modification of BC actually fix it, or make it less common?

I have noticed that getting an NPC to acknowledge your presence before starting a conversation seems to minimize the issue, has that been noticed as a workaround?

I read that thread the same as you.

I too have noticed that when an NPC acknowledges you or is able to turn and face you the issue rarely happens. The only time I get the issue is when there are statics between me and the NPC that prevent the NPC from fully turning and facing me. It is particularly problematic in the Balmora mages guild if one of the mages wanders over between the pews. But if I can catch them out in the open, I rarely have the issue.

Actually the cause is narrowed down to a new "Who is there?" dialogue entry in MPP 1.6.5x (I don't remember what letter version of MPP 1.6.5), so either remove MPP 1.6.5x or delete this new dialogue entry in EE and there is no other way to solve this issue.

Although, I posted the correct link, but a few posts below http://www.gamesas.com/topic/1473376-whos-there-goodbye/page-2#entry23008661 described exactly what you need to do to solve the "Who is there?" issue. Sorry for the confusing.

Except that I am using the 1.6.6 version of the patch and still getting the issue. Didn't quorn fix this error in 1.6.6?

It sounds like, in addition to any issues with the 1.6.5x version of the patch, the Who's There/Goodbye dialog entry somehow found its way into the Better Bodies esp that was included in MGSO, and needs to be removed from that with EE. At least that is how I read what lpkchiri1 and WH-Reaper said above.

Could you send the cleaned esp to me?

You do? That's odd. It's hard to tell and I haven't checked myself since I don't use MPP 1.6.6 atm.

You're correct I found a "Who is there?" entry in Better Clothes 1.1.esp and I think that's included in MGSO, so it should be easy to get rid of that entry in EE.

All you need to do is load Better Clothes_v1.1.esp in EE and look for the dialogue/dialogue responses group then go through all responses and check if a dialogue ID has the "Who is there?" ID as a subrecord usually at the end to the right.

I found this ID: 1215227585220936854 in the Better Clothes_v1.1.esp in EE. Just backup the esp then delete that ID in EE and save the plugin when exiting EE. That should fix this "Who is there?" issue in-game.

If not then you need to repeat these steps to fix it yourself.

1. Backup the plugin and load the esm/esp in EE

2. Open the dialogue/dialogue responses group

3. Check every entry there is for the "Who is there?" ID as a subrecord

4. Delete the ID in the dialogue/dialogue responses group that has the "Who is there?" ID as a subrecord

5. Save the changes in the esm/esp when exiting EE

Only do this if you know what you're doing and be advised that this could damage your game.

So, once you have cleaned the Better Bodies esp, can you just replace the original with the cleaned version, or do you need to generate an "updater" in Wrye Mash by putting both the old and new esp file in your load order at the same time and clicking on the new mod and selecting "updater", etc. I have studiod the Wrye Mash http://wryemusings.com/Wrye%20Mash.html#ModUpdatingbut I don't have a good grasp on when it is necessary to follow that procedure.

Well, I'm not sure, you have to test it yourself. I personally did not use updaters function.

Thanks. I guess I can back up my save and test it and see what happens. I find the whole process for updating a mod in Morrowind a bit baffling. In Oblivion it is simple (just make a clean save in an interior cell not affected by the mod). In Skyrim it is also simple, since you pretty much need to start a new game any time you adjust your load order, at least if there are scripts involved.

Morrowind, however, is confusing because there is Wrye Mash, which has the "updaters" feature as well as the ability to "repair references" on your save file, both of which seem to do the same thing by cleaning up broken references to avoid doubling. So I am not sure what the difference is between these two procedures, other than the "repair all" command takes but a second while the "updaters" process has several steps.

And then you have the Morrowind Code Patch that has its own method of dealing with these issues, which seems more like the Oblivion "clean save" process. And I am not sure whether it is better to just follow MCP procedures when updating a mod or if it is better to use Wrye Mash. I should probably start a new thread about this issue, since I am sure there is someone here who understands all this stull way better than I and could explain it.

Oblivion and Skyrim both have FormIDs, which make updating mods a hell of a lot easier.

Morrowind does, kinda, but they're hidden away by the game. It uses modindexes and objectindexes to keep track of what objects have been added to the game world by what mod. anologous to FormIDs really.

An abridged version of http://wryemusings.com/Wrye%20Matching.html is available on the http://wiki.theassimilationlab.com/mmw/Doubling

As to whether you should still use Wrye Mash's updaters function when you've got MCP, here's what Hrnchamd says:
(emphasis mine)

Thanks Dragon. So, it sounds like Hrnchamd is recommending using the Wrye Mash "updaters" feature even if you are using MCP. Good to know.

I will have to study the Wrye's Doubling article you linked. I had been looking for that because it is linked in the Wrye Mash readme, but the link in the readme is broken, so I couldn't find it. Glad it is preserved on the new wiki.

Yeah, I had to manually type the URL on his new site to match the URL from his old site to get that page.

The problem Wrye Mash's updaters fix is related to references of objects you place in the world. So if you place a new NPC or object in the world and move that reference in the update, the you need to use the updaters feature.

For things like changing dialogue, scripts, GMST changes etc, you don't need to use updaters feature. So unless you move objects around, then you don't need updaters feature.

Thanks. That makes sense, especially having read Wrye's notes Dragon linked, which are an interesting read but I only understand some of what Wrye says -- he talks at a certain level of underatanding and I am not quite there yet. Thanks for the simple and easy to understand explanation.