When did tghey ever explain why the Enclave were there? In-game I mean.

I can't understand why people freak out about the Enclave being a major force in two friggin' games. Have you never played Halo? I mean come on.

I can get wanting to have another enemy, but yeesh.

Whatever, it's made pretty clear that the Enclave isn't supposed to be a monolithic faction but merely a high-ranking splinter of the pre-war military-industrial complex; bringing them back again as a major antagonist in a world with so much potential would be lazy and defy established lore.

Stupid forum crashes and I lose my whole response.

It does not defy established lore, says so in the Fallout Bible they fled to many places. Bethesda needs to canonize that to make it lore. Second, they still exist in the Midwest as shown by ED-E.

I'd personally want the Chinese to rebuild somewhat and threaten America again as an enemy, but who knows what they'll do. [censored]ing about them coming back once (which made perfect sense, governments always have contingencies) is obnoxious.

First that line is total crap. The games themselves say that the Enclave are gone as a major faction and will never come back as such on their own. They are in Chicago yes but chances are they are small. Chris Avellone himself think the Bible should no longer be considered canon.

Bethesda should not canonize that one crappy line. It goes against three Fallouts worth of proof that they are now done as a major power. It makes no sense for them to do so. All it will prove is Bethesda can't write worth crap and some people are stupid for wanting the same old crap over and over.

Only way I would care to see Enclave again are if they are Remnants. Old military bases abandoned before the Great War or is the teamed up with the Midwestern BoS under Barnaky.

Even the people that run wiki/vault agree that that one line in the Big is crap and goes against the games. That is why they changed the page on the Enclav (which only they can change, the page is locked to all but the guy that runs it.)

Enclave are dead as a MAJOR POWER.

I don't care what the Bible said, it's wrong plain and simple:

{273}{prs54}{You could try, I suppose, but soon the staff of the Enclave and Navarro will be inoculated.}

From President Richardson, the Enclave in Fallout 2 was going to release a killer virus - that required an innoculation - that would travel the world over, cue Richardson:

256}{prs47}{Oh, but that's one of the advantages of the F.E.V. virus. We can release it right here and the jetstream will carry it worldwide. It'll have plenty of time to cleanse every nook and cranny of the globe.}

So any Enclave elsewhere would die as I am going to assume they wouldn't have the chemicals to produce what they needed, even the Enclave in Fallout 2 needed to trade with wastelanders for them; not that building any bases elsewhere would make sense when it comes to maintaining communications and planning for the recontruction of a global super-power after a nuclear war.

Who's doubting Chicago?


The government did have a contingency, it was about restablishing themselves on an off-shore Oil Platform built by Poseidon Energy called ENCLAVE.

I didn't say Bethesda should canonize it, at all. I said they need to to make it canon, there's a distinct difference. Chris doesn't think the bible is canon BECAUSE Bethesda now owns it. If Bethesda canonizes things from his bible, or the whole thing, it IS canon. It's just in in the void right now for parts of it.

Bethesda fans are stupid? More like Black Isle/Obsidian/Whateverthehell fans are for being such psychotic nerds that they fight tooth and nail over canon and fanon every day. I would prefer China or another country coming back to power personally. Reusing an effective enemy is not bad writing, at all. Many great series use the same main enemy. Jesus.

But those [censored]ing, did you complain when the Khans have been brought back 3 [censored] times? Don't tell me "Well they're not a big enemy!" it's the same damn principle.

Khans have the luxury of being able to recruit externally, a single surviving Khan could rebuild the tribe whereas a single Enclave survivor doesn't have the power or authority to rebuild the legal United States government and would in reality just be an 'ex' Enclave member like the Remnants. Besides, I agree, they should be dead... but that is not the topic of conversation here is it: what opertuinity does somebody have in a conversation about the Enclave to mention the Khans in that context? None.

Yeah I changed the Bethesda fans are stupid, it was rude to put it, so I changed it. Just so this isn't taken out of context. I was saying they would be stupid if they wanted the same old crap over and over and I know they are smarter then that and demand new things

That one line isn't canon and it should not be. Fallout 2, Fallout 3 and New Vegas all say that Enclave are done as a major faction if you connect the dots. If you care about lore and canon. Wanting the Enclave back because they were off around the world somewhere for 200 years with no contact with the rest of the Enclave is just damn stupid and would break canon.

Bethesda can come up with something new (Hopefully).

Enclave being around the world is stupid for many reasons.

1) No mention of any bases around the world in game. Fallout 2 tells us the only bases are the Rig and Navarro.

2) The Entire Enclave leadership was on the rig, Fallout 2, Fallout 3 and New Vegas confirm this.

3) The Virus from Fallout 2 would have killed everyone around the world not on the Rig and Navarro.

4) Enclave have no means of contacting these other people in person or just by talking to them. So there are many enclaves with their own presidents and cabinet and so on? It would be Stupid!

I could go on but I grow tired of talking about this. It was bad enough they came back in Fallout 3. That caused so many problems with lore as it is.

When you complain about the Enclave being in TWO games, and don't complain about the Khan's being in THREE, you're a hypocrite. Perfectly logical.

The Enclave does recruit externally at times by the way, there's the robot guy at Adams who you can allow to live. They rescued him or something, I forget.

1) You're ascribing other's people's words to me. I'd rather a new big faction.

2) Arguments about canon and lore are stupid ultimately because EVERY SERIES EVER has retcons and lore changes. Look at any comic book series or anything ever. People make mistakes, change their minds and things get switched around.

3) Who cares about the virus killing anyone else? If that was the REAL ending (which it isn't) then it wouldn't have mattered. No Fallout 3, no nothing. Pointless argument.

4) There can be isolated pockets of them. You keep saying MAJOR POWER, I'm not talking about a major power at all.

Yeesh, nerd central and I thought I was bad.

Your right because no of us ever said, "The Enclave should never be brought back again because they weren't that big, FEV Virus plan, requires innoculations etc. Oh yeah, the Khans too." When the [censored] would there ever have been a place to mention the Khans ridiculousness in a response to your post where I was responding to your statement; Jesus Christ do I have to put huge disclaimers on everything - regardless of what we are talking about - lest I offend someone."I think fighting the Enclave was easy... oh but yeah so was the Legion." "I think Fallout 2 was the best installment of the series... oh but wait I didn't say I didn't like F3." "I don't think that Dad was a very compelling character... but neither was Caesar either; I'm not biased." Do you understand what I am trying to say, there is no opertuinity to say such things in repsonses to your questions or the original posters for that matter which is about the ENCLAVE and not faction resurection in general.


Yeah that one guy, still don't know why they did that but he wasn't a citizen or anyone of any importance; just a guy they used probably because most Enclave people with knowledge of robotics were dead.

It isn't Hypocritical. BoS are in all five canon Fallout games and I am sick of that.

Connect the dots (canon) from Fallout 2, Fallout 3 and New Vegas you will see they are D E A D as a Major Faction. Stop clining to one line from the non canon bible that has been proven wrong so many times now.

Khans can recruit and start over. They change each time. Enclave don't recruit, it is against their whole ideology. They were nuked in Fallout 2 killing most of the Enclave and the entire Enclave commmand. This has been confirmed in Fallout 2, Fallout 3 and New Vegas.

Because it would have killed any of these mythical around the world Enclave too wouldn't it?


Thanks for that...

True and Fallout has had people make mistakes. Biggest Mistake in Fallout History was "Brotherhood of Steel." The Fallout Bible has mistakes and that one line about world bases is a mistake and it has been proven so. Now for your third point. Fallout fans care about it. Like I said PoS tried new things and fans rebelled agianst Interplay and the game is considered total crap to this day. Fallout is not a damn comic book. Completely changing a factions history would ruin Fallout. Might as well stop connecting the games together. Each Fallout adds more to the story. Going back and saying the last five (three of which have Enclave) Fallouts were wrong is stupid.

I don't want them back as a major power and I am glad you arn't talking about that idea. I don't mind seeing the Enclave as remnants. I would not mind coming across more information on the Enclave (so long as it isn't world bases crap) from abandoned pre-war bases. Or if the Enclave teamed up with General Barnaky.

This.

I doubt the Enclave are completly dead even at this point, I saw a lot of room for a decent number of soliders to escape during Broken Steel. Is it enough for them to come back as anything other than remnants who are mearly surviving? No, not really.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/842/enclavefacepalm.jpg/

Camps doesn't not mean permanent bases. To me it means that Enclave scouts sent to scout things would be doing their mission completely unaware that Raven Rock was destroyed. They will return looking for it only to be gunned down by the BoS.

Broken Steel even starts with "End the Enclave threat once and for all!" At the End the BoS say something like "don't worry we will mop up any strays" or something like that. The BoS say they will make it there mission to hunt down any Enclave left.

Yeah, see the thing is though, Elder Lyons was competely oblivious to the Enclave in the first place, even with Eyebots blaring "Washington Post" all over the CW.

So I don't trust him as a reliable source of intel.

(But yeah you're right, there was no need for Bethesda to put in that line, bad judgement on their part)

They better not, can't a faction just die :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: