So I want to make my own signs, like the vault signs or just generic signs. The thing is, I don't know how. Was there not a tutorial on making new signs? What I don't know is how to remove existing lettering from a vanila sign, nor do I know how to add lettering to a blank sign. Any ideas?

The Texture Set and Modelling tutorial that Artisten and I put together will show you some of the GIMP basics, if you want to use GIMP. It will also show you the NifSkope stuff you need to change out-textures if you need to change the file-name and/or see what image file has been attached to which model. Artisten's video tutorial will show you these live - its one option.

@Miax - If you are talking about the tutorial in your sig, I went through that. In fact, that tutorial was instrumental in my creation of a new collision for the monorail in my mod (thanks). But I just did not see, or I did not get, the steps needed to remove and remake text on existing textures. Could you point me to the relevant section(s)/chapter(s)?

1. You find the texture that goes with the mesh you want to retexture and copy it to your mod folder.
2. You edit the texture, wiping out what was there with what you want it to say. Most art programs have 'text tool' so you can type messages on the texture.
3. You save your texture and you start up the geck and make a new 'Texture Set' that points to your new texture.
4. You then apply the new 'Texture Set' object you created in the GECK to your mesh.

What points are you stuck on?

Ha! WillieSea. I was waiting for you, 'cause I knew you had done this for your vault mod.

So all I have to do is find the equivalent of the text tool in GIMP (because that's what I use). I take it the text tool allows the erasing of the old and adding of the new, right?

Thanks man, I am off to try it out.

Chapter 3 is the one I highly recommend, as it will show you the basics on how to make your normal maps as well as the regular textures in the GIMP. Chapter 3 will get you into the GIMP and get you going on editing a texture.

Chapter 6 will show you the basics of NifSkope, but you don't need to go deep here - just install and setup Nifskope, then focus on section 6.5 to learn Where textures are stored for a particular model.

Chapter 7 then will show you how to add texture-sets to the game, and how to attach them to your objects successfully.

I recommend you start with something existing, and modify that (which is how I learned) - like a beer bottle. Pick a sign that is close to what you want, find it's texture (Section 6.5 on NifSkope), and edit that in the GIMP. This will give you some practice while allowing you to modify a few clutter items like beer bottles to suit your mod. You only need Nifskope to discover what the current texture of the model/item is, so you don't have to go deep into NifSkope.

Once you load the texture for the beer bottle into GIMP, note the size (512x512, 1024x1024, etc), and stick to that same size. Then modify the texture however you wish. You'll notice how the 3D model sides/faces are layed-out on the 2D texture (which is UV mapping), but you don't need to worry too much about that right now - just focus on modifying the Part of the texture that has the sign (or where the label would go on the beer), and try it out. Flat signs really are ideal as early-objects, as they are primarily 2D objects and thats much simpler to deal with.

Post all questions! I am not a GIMP master, but Artisten and others here are and I'm sure folks will pitch-in to get you going!

Cheers

What do you mean by 'you want to edit signs' for your mod?

Do you mean the 'location' lights that usually hang from the ceiling?
Like the 'Detention' sign in this image?
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l237/WillieSea/V64Screen18.jpg

@WilllieSea - Yup. That's what I'm after exactly.

Assuming the texture is going to be the standard .dds file, no.. erasing of lettering with text tools can only occur before the text is rasterized and the text object layer is merged flat, joined to the background layer permenantly. An old trick around that is to box-select an area just above or near the text, preferrably the same size as the lettering and hopefully the edge colors are the same, then edit->copy it. Then repaste that piece into the picture and reposition it over the lettering to hide it. While it's still an object you may have to use the eraser tool (20-30% of full erase) to "fade" and blend the edges so it matches the background. Once that's done you can merge that layer to the background texture, then break out your text tool and add your lettering as you like. I'm not sure how the tool names I used translate to GIMP (I'm a hardcoe Photoshop CS4 user), but they should be about the same I would guess.. pretty standard functions.

I gave up on the 'original signs' because they all use just two textures and there is little room for putting the text you want on them. I took a different route with my overhead signs.

I have a blank sign, and then I put a transparent square mesh that just has the words on it in the right place on the sign. I can then make the words be any length I want and not restricked by the funny way they did it with the vanilla signs.

Hey, that's a really sharp way of doing that. You don't loose resolution or sharpness of the text due to working small scale.. like when game devs jam 50 different images onto one texture, and you have to edit small and it ends up looking grainy.

Ok, I need a little GIMP save help as can be seen by http://s779.photobucket.com/albums/yy80/HupOranje/GIMPHelp.jpg.

I started with a vaniila texture Vsign01.dds, then added my own text (red box), which added a new Text layer (brown box). Then I tried to save the texture (Blue box) but all it did was save the text in an invalid size (Green box). I made a new mesh that ignores the text at the bottom of the origianl texture. Its just a blank vault sign mesh, so If I can just attach a proper texture, I think it will work. I realize that this must be something pretty easy, but I can't seem to figure it out.


Can anyone help me out here?

When you save, chose "DDS" as the file format to save the image as. This will then prompt you with a small, "Save as DDS" window. Select "BC3/DXT5/ for the compression, and check the "Generate MipMaps" so that it makes MipMaps. That's it! The saved image will work in GECK and Fo3.

We'll move on to making normal maps and such later, its not critical yet. I think one of the easiest items to re-texture are the posters - as their textures are the most "2D" that you'll find for 3D objects in the game. Posters are also Fun, make great clutter items for any mod and you can do anything you want artistically with little or no care about the technical aspects of the modeling - this is also one of the ways I got into it so I'm biased on the method.

Miax

I am doing all of that. I have the dds plugin for GIMP, so it automatically saves as a dds based on the file extension. I have been retexturing successfully for a while now, but I have never added a new layer before. For some reason, that I can't seem to figure out, the save process is only saving the top layer and not the "main surface" layer. I tried to "flatten image" which did let me save the whole textures, but produced some odd colors around the border of the sign object. So that can't be right. I know this is something simple, because it must be possible to save a texture with multiple layers, I'm just to noobish with it to figure it out.

Thats a very good question - and to be honest, I don't know how to do it either.

All of my textures have been single-layer, I never figured out how to associate layer X in an image file with UV Map Y. Maybe one of the Really good modellers/textures can help us with that.

For my signs I just made them single-texture signs, and went with that. The poster objects are like this, single-layer.

Okay, partial solution:

I tried to "Merge" layers and this worked in that I could now save the whole texture. The problem is now everytime I want to make a new sign texture, I have to make and re-algn the text layer before merging. So I am still interested if anybody can clarify how to save the darn texture with both layers so all I have to do is change the text. That would be so much simpler. Perhaps dds format does not allow for multiple layers, I dunno. At least I have a workable solution. I just have to write down all the parameters to ensure each sign has the same justification (centeredness).

I think I've figured it out. The GIMP documentation says that the only format that can save all of the GIMP information is the native GIMP .xcf format. So I saved my two layer generic sign texture with the (blank) text layer as an .xcf, then load that file when I want to make a new sign, edit the text layer, merge the layers and save as a .dds. This keeps all new sign text aligned exactly the same way. Sweet!

Very cool. I save alot of my pre-work in .xcf format when still working on textures or to store originals before I age them.

Its alot of trial and error, but once you get through the basics you'll become a texturing fewl - it's exactly what I experienced when I was first able to change textures and models in the actual game - very elating!

It will add alot to the city too - Hugely so in fact. I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

I am working on my own sign as well, and I am experiencing problems.

Basically, I am using the llsignbathrooms.nif as the mesh because I like the shape and background texture that comes with it.

1) I extracted llsignbathrooms.nif and woodlamplightmiscsigns.dds.
2) I edited woodlamplightmiscsigns.dds in Photoshop, replacing the "Bathroom" text with my own text. I save the .dds with my custom file name.
3) Using nifskope, I edited the texture path in llsignbathroom.nif to point to my custom texture .dds, then save the edited mesh with my custom file name
4) I created a new texture set in GECK and import my custom texture for the sign. I use woodlamplightmisclsigns_n.dds for normal maps.
5) I created a new object in GECK for my sign and set the mesh as my custom mesh, point the texture to the new texture I imported.

The mesh shows up in game but has the texture of what looks like a beige sofa. What am I doing wrong?

How does the model look in Nifskope?

You kind of mixed methods a bit. If you make a new mesh and point the BSShaderTextureSet path to your new texture, you don't need to make a texture set in the geck at all, just a new object whose model points to the new mesh.

If you make a new texture set in the geck using your new texture, you don't need a new nif file at all, just edit the original sign, go the the model sub-section and add your texture set to the existing mesh in the top slot of the texture list.

If you see the model looking good in Nifskope, but it looks like a sofa in game, then most likely your paths are wrong somewhere.

Yeah, I realize that. I started with one method (just importing new texture) but ended up using all the methods I knew after one method didn't work. In the end, I couldn't get any of them to work. The sign looks fine in nifskope (although I don't see the texture, not sure how to activate that view), but it's pink in the GECK. And when I drop it into a cell, it looks like a sign with beige sofa texture. I can't make heads or tail of it.

How can you tell if the sign is fine in Nifskope when you can't see the texture? Are you implying that the model is white (no texture)? IMHO you need to get Nifskope to show the whole model, mesh & texture, before you can move on. You may not have link it correctly right from the start, or the .ddf file may be borked. Post a pic of the model in Nifskope. There are ways of getting that to work, if its not.

Heh. Yeah, I don't know where the switch for displaying the texture is, so I can only see the blank model. I've used nifscope to switch replace default mesh with custom textures in Oblivion and FO3 before by just redirecting the texture search path, so I've never felt the need to see the texture in nifscope until now :/ How do I check the texture in nifskope? I've set the game paths for FO3 via auto detect in render settings but the textures still do not display in nifskope.

[edit] nevermind, fixed it. stupid Photoshop...

If you've already clicked the Auto Detect Game Paths button and Nifskope found the Fallout 3 \Data path, but you are not seeing the textures,
go to File --> Resource Files and check the "Automatic Selection" box and watch the box get filled with all the BSA files. If you still don't see any textures, then make sure you have the "textures" box selected on the same page as where the Auto Detect Game Paths button is. Its just below that button. If the "Automatic Selection" didn't populate with all the BSA files, you can add them manually.

Thanks. I am silly. All this time, I thought I auto detected the gamepath in nifskope but I didn't. We're talking about well over a year of ignorance here. As for the texture issuse, I fixed it by fiddling with the settings in the Photoshop dds save screen. The sign shows up in game now and everything. But you have to admit, the last couple of unexplained issues I've had suggest an increasingly likelihood that the GECK is out to get me.