I saw a thread where the question was NCR or BoS, who whould win in a fight. People have started bringing the Lyons chapter into it, saying that Lyons could easily defeat the NCR but I'd don't think the NCR would have much trouble taking them out. My main article of evidence is that Lyons brotherhood barley beat the enclave when they were at less than half strength, where as the NCR sent them running east. What do you think?

Well the NCR fought an Enclave camp after the Enclave was suffering from near extiction. Besides your missing the more obvious point that the NCR numbers in the millions and Lyon's... doesn't.

That just seems to support my point that the NCR could beat them

I agree, without a shadow of a doubt, the BoS can't even deliver [censored] water safley; NCR has to watch-out though, Lyon's BoS has the magical ability to pull magical tech out-of-it's [censored] and get it working despite the fact that the pre-war government and Army could not.

NCR is huge. They go from Baja Mexico to southern Oregon and into Northern Nevada. Population well into the millions. They are making railroads and are well on their war to pre-war levels when it comes to understanding tech.

Lyons BoS. They don't even control all of DC which is a tiny dot next to the size of NCR. Lyons BoS has a population of less then 2000 and that is a high number being generious with that. They have no manufacturing base and no farming. They just got clean water. NCR had that for over a hundred years.

That and NCR already won against the Mojave Chapter which is about the same size as Lyons BoS and they have better armour then Lyons. NCR seems to be winning against the rest of the BoS back West but to be far there is little mention of the BoS vs NCR war back west in New Vegas.

The NCR.

As Ol Boney was reported to say - An Army marches on its stomach.

Presuming the "Distance" factor isn't an issue, the NCR have farms, ranches, Caravan companies. The BOS have, well, none of these things. The NCR have a large standing army, the BOS is a smaller, if better equiped and trained group.

The EBOS end up in the same situation as the WBOS. being on the worst side of a siege war - behind the walls. The Citadel has got to be harder to defend than lost hills, but easier to sneak out teams to resupply.

Logically, even with the NCR's flaws, I'd say they would be the winner if the two came to fighting. But the thing is, for the NCR or Lyons' chapter of the Brotherhood of Steel to even reach the other would change the situation, and it's unlikely either will ever. Or, if they do, anytime in the near future of the universe. That is, logically. If Bethesda were to do some intolerably bad writing, it might happen, but I'm hoping they've learned to do better than that. ;]

It's kind of similar to that question of, "What would have happened if Columbus never went to the Americas?" There's so many variables that you can't give a certain answer, if we are to add in the fact that they would not be in the positions we saw them in their latest games if they were to ever meet another. Albeit the non-Fallout question has far more variables than the Fallout one does.

I know it's been brought up before, but the sheer numbers wins. NCR doesn't waste resources defending its citizens, while Lyons BOS constantly wastes people to simply defend their fellow man and ward of supermutants. While good and loyal, it's not going to win any kind of war, and they only defeated the Enclave because the Lone Wanderer was forced to help them.

The NCR does defend it's citizens, that's why it's at war.

I think the question is why would they want to, its a big continent, why waste resources, plus it seems pretty obvious that the ncr is big, lyons bos isnt at any stretch of the imagination, its a question that answers itself.

At this moment, I don t see any possible way Lyons bos could beat NCR. NCR is old and huge............ Lyons bos is new and small.

4 years is not enough time to rebuild Prime if it can even be done. It is also not enough time for Lyons bos to get big enough to compete.

NCR would take heavy loses, but they have already proven they can beat bos into near submission by shear numbers.

It was stated many times in the game that the NCR won't be helping any caravans against raiders, many of the in-game citizens even state that they don't care who wins in the war, it won't make a difference anyways, it's all anarchy. The NCR is not at war for the people, only for the land and the resources it can [censored] from the land

NCR is not fighting the war with everything they have. They are trying to fight it with as little military force as they can. They want to contain the Legion on their side of the Colorado. NCR is huge. They protect the people in NCR. The Mojave is not yet apart of the NCR. If the Legion was not around things would be alot different for the people of the Mojave. The whole of the NCR is not like what is going on in the Mojave. NCR can no longer get troops into the Mojave from the north (northern Nevada) because of the Divide. If they could things would be alot better for the NCR. Insted they have have to send troops around the mountains which takes a long time. They don't have the railroad finished because of the powder gangers.

As for people not carring who wins the war... That is a load of crap. Many people in the game hate Caesar and know full well the hell that would happen if they won. They may not like the NCR but they sure as hell don't want the Legion running things. Most just want to be left alone.

The NCR army would probably die trying to march to DC. Getting thousands of troops a couple thousand miles in the post war world would be a nightmare and the NCR has trouble securing supply lines as it is. Everyone keeps talking about the might of the NCR's army but forgetting it have to reach Lyon's for the fight to occur.

How would NCR meet Lyons BOS in the first place ? I still say you don't wanna fight BOS troops with Enclave armor, plasma rifles , fat-man and Tesla cannons on their own Urban backyard. Lyons BOS knows DC like the back of his hand...

1000nds of NCR troops storming into DC for heavy think urban fighting with Soldiers in power armor....

and yeah...all Lyons BOS really needs is Fawkes in hellfire power armor with his Gatling lazer.... :shocking:

Yah.. no, its been stated that the NCR's population is only 700,000, still huge when compared to the tiny EBoS that numbers in the thousands at most.

Yeah that was 40 years ago, and in 80 years the NCR went from Shady Sands to 700'000 by the time of Fallout 2.

Okay, let's pretend that the BoS changed policy and up'd recruitment.

So 10 years later they've got a decent standing army (clad in power armour) and start to take controll of land, moving westward.

At the same time NCR is doing the same minus some shiney tech, moving eastward (lets forget the legion for now).

So they would meet in the middle somewhere, and presumably have major conflict.

In this humble poster's opinion, that would be a pretty sweet general plot idea.

Off topic? Maybe.

Dellicious? Yes.

My opinion on the matter has changed much since really digging into New Vegas. I once thought Lyons BoS would win without doubt. Not anymore.

There's two was I think it could play out: If the NCR massively mobilizes it's arm and falls on the BoS with full force, no amount of power armor or giant robots will save them. However, I don't see that as likely. I think NCR would more likely have a small portion of its forces there, much like they do in the Mojave, while keepings its majority back west to protect their home. With a force equal to what it has in the Mojave, I think the BoS would stand a fighting chance. Liberty Prime was estimated, by one of the scribes, to be working within a few years or months even. By 2281 I'd say it's up and running again. That, in itself, would give them a massive advantage. Along side my old arguement, the people of the Capital Wastes favoring the BoS, the combined might of Liberty Prime, a possible Advanced Power Armor MKIII (if you listen to the scribes, they are nearly done developing MKII Recon Armor by the time they take Adams Airforce Base, so MKIII Power Armor should be able to be completed within a few years.), and the near entirety of the Capital Wastes coming to defend the BoS either threw actual recruitment or vigalente style attacks on NCR, would likely ensure the BoS victory. However, after that I wouldn't see it as too far of a stretch for the NCR, after being humiliated by BoS, to come back in full force, which would be ustoppable even though they would likely suffer heavy causalities.

This is all assuming that NCR gets their by 2290 at the latest though. The most realistic approach would be the NCR having taken all of america, and looking at the east coast as the final frontier of them returning back to the days from before the war, which could very well taken 100's of years. There's no telling how much the BoS on the east coast would have changed by then, for all I know they could easily decimate the entirety of the NCR using one soldier in high advanced Power Armor and a [censored]-everything gun if they have developped tech that much by then. They could also have lost interest and moved on or changed policys a lot due to new Elders taking charge and no longer be willing to fight to control the east.

I don't think that we are supposed to imagine a realistic scenario as one was not given; besides, for the NCR to be anywhere near DC, one would imagine that they took everything else beforehand.

EDIT: The Brotherhood proper couldn't produce new power armour and I think it's more likely that any Advanced Recon Armour is largely the previous suit with upgrades.

Which is exactly why I didn't really go into all the possibilities for a realistic scenario...

Now, exactly why couldn't the BoS produce new power armor? The Enclave did it, and the Brotherhood themselves have proven to be very capable on their own, not to mention the fact that they gained acess to everything the Enclave had at Adams Air Force Base, including the technology and any archives that may have been there as well. It's perfectly reasonable for them to be able to produce new power armors, recon armors, and energy weapons.

Its an established fact that the brotherhood cannot produced power armour and why would facilities relating to power construction or research be at Adams AIRFORCE BASE.

Where is it established that they can't do that. Specifcally, where in Fallout 3, considering how vastly different the Brotherhood is to how it in Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas? It's not a stretch that it could be well within their capabilities, especially considering the massive influx of new tech that they got from the Enclave.

Adams Airforce Base was a pre war air force that the Enclave took post war. Who knows how long the Enclave has been there. They could have built new power armor constuction facilities there. Also, I THINK one of ED-E's logs in New Vegas sais something about them researching and creating the Hellfire Power Armor there as well.

They are based at the Pentagon, not some huge pre-war factory; it's all well and good to say that for the time they've been there that they could have done something but if the West Coast Brotherhood never got the ability to build power armour in all their time of operating - and not facing any significant threats or having much outside responsibility unlike Lyon's with the Super Mutants - then I don't see how the splinter we see in F3 garrisoning the Pentagon could possibly have access to such advanced equipment.


They've could have been there for 30 years... so? Where could they possibly get the equipment to build power armour and why would they then move it too Adams Airforce Base and not just guard where it was? ED-E's logs say that ED-E's creator was working at Adams, he says that his research was being sent to the Hellfire Armour Programme.