On the Eight Divines: More Nordic than Elven?

Post » Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:11 am

Ok, one thing that has been bothering me for a while is that, supposedly, Alessia tried to mix elven and nordic pantheons to appease both sides, thus creating the 8 divines, right? Thing is, the 8 Divines pantheon appears to be pretty much exclusively nordic, so I can't really see the elven bits of it.

*Akatosh - I always see him as an enigma. He is supposedly a humanized version of Auri-El, but his name doesn't appear in any mythology as "Akatosh". Pretty much he appears with Alessia. There is no, absolutely no connection between dragons and Auri-El, and the Nords don't have an Akatosh parallel (Alduin is definitely not). So, I like calling him the "made up God". I know he is a combination of eagle and serpent, Auri-El and Lorkhan, but that's not overtly claimed in universe. Can anyone here trace his non-Alessian origins?

* Julianos - the Nordic Jhunal, pretty straightforward. Also related to Owl from the ancient nordic pantheon.

* Mara - this chick appears to be everywhere, so she is pretty much the only god I can say is both elven and nordic.

* Stendarr - again, a nordic god, although the Aldmer did respect him as an apologist of men. Also appears in Khajiit myth, so he might be a bit more elven than I though initially.

* Arkay - a god with mortal origins (supposedly), although he has links with Xarxes and other gods. Nevertheless, he doesn't really have a definite origin.

* Dibella - definitely not part of elven mythology, although she does appear as "Moth" to the ancient nords. So I would say, another nordic goddess.

* Kynareth - Obviously Kyne, with significant nordic influence.

* Zenithar - Another odd one, usually associated with the Bosmeri Zen, although it's speculated he is of Akaviri or Argonian origins. Not quite nordic, but not quite elven either.

* Talos - obviously a strong Imperial and nordic influence, the pinnacle of all the Shezzarine shenanigans. Definitely not elven.

So, with all of that, I can't really see any elven influences on the 8 divines. Like, only Akatosh could potentially qualify, although as much as NPCs insist he is Auri-El, there is absolutely no mention of him in mythic sagas. Like, none. The only thing that could perhaps rectify this is if.... maybe in TES 6 we discover some ancient mer murials depicting a draconic form of Auri-El? Although with a distinct, feathery, elven design - something like the elven dragon of the South. Something like http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/mightandmagic/images/9/9d/DragonGod_Light_Elrath.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120229191438&path-prefix=en perhaps? I would really buy the idea of some Aldmeri depictions of Auri-El as a slender, feathery dragon who attacks mankind. This would really tie into Akatosh-Auriel relations and would justify at least some semblance of a "dragon" iconography.

What do you guys think? As much as I'm trying to decipher Alessia's attempts to mix pantheons, it's pretty much an Imperialized version of the nordic pantheons (which again leaves the Altmeri pantheon as the most uninspired and underdeveloped, shame).

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daniel royle
 
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Post » Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:39 pm

I don't think that idea behind divines was ever suppose to be some elven gods mixed with some Nordic gods ( or rather Nedic if you want to be specific) if that is what you mean by divines being exclusivly nordic.

Instead you have elven deities combined with their equivelents in Nedic pantheon. Akatosh is Auriel combined with Lorkhan so that in this new religion common for both elves and men you don't have a deity that advocates death of one group , nor do you have open worship of what is esentially a devil figure for elves.

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Melissa De Thomasis
 
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Post » Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:07 am

I agree, but that is exactly what the pantheon doesn't do convincingly. Your example is pretty much the only and most famous instance.

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megan gleeson
 
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Post » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:52 pm

What Cryticus said. The divines themselves are syncretic, not just their inclusion in the religion.

Also. Just because a god does not resemble Aldmeri sources does not mean it does not have Merrish aspects: we don't have a lot of texts about Ayleid religion, and those that do exist (mostly from ESO) tend to deal with star gods and Daedra. Perhaps those should also be considered as plausible sources of inspiration for the Alessian Divines besides the Ancestors of Summerset religion. Speaking of Ancestor Worship - Cyrodiils do that too.

A further addendum: the Eight Divines as portrayed in the games are supposed to be more Nordic in influence - because they are in truth Colovian. Tiber Septim's reforms diluted the assumed religious plurality of the heartlands quite a lot, and before that was the the Marukh theocracy (and their wars). Perhaps some blame could also be left with Uriel VII and the post-Simulacrum restoration. Cyrodiils are not blind to the irony in their beliefs and in some way are trying to escape it.

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SamanthaLove
 
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Post » Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:35 pm

I understand your first point, but one thing that I don't fully understand is how the Aedra can be so visible in the night sky, their planes of existence not obscured to mortals. Exactly 8 "planets". No more, no less. This means they must have existed in one mythology or another at some point, and then be rehabilitated into the 8 Divines. I know the games are generally pro-human (which is annoying).

On your second paragraph, that's quite an interesting way of looking at it actually. What do you mean with your last sentence though? God, sorry for sounding so confused, but I genuinely don't see the logic of the 8, when these 8 should have existed in one religion or another and not be "made up". Dibella especially, where does she even come from? I mean, I love her, but her origins?

Edit: Also, the Nordic pantheon is not nedic. Definitely. The nedics' religion was much more centered around the Constellations. I still get tired when people keep implying nordic and nedic is the same thing. It's not, and we have more proof flying around in ESO. Both are Atmorans, but they are not the same thing. It's like saying Italians and the British are exactly the same thing, although they are both European.

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Madison Poo
 
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