Do Dremora use light armor, light infantry etc?

Post » Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:55 am

Hey guys.

I have a very simple question. We do know that the Dremora are a warrior race of deadra that serve Mehrunes Dagon, yes?

But why are Dremora never seen to use light armor, or even medium armor, skirmishers and other sort of infantry besides the knight-type heavy infantry and the occasional mage?

I mean, Dremora probably use Scamps and Clannfears but I doubt they would be as effective as a Dremora in light medium armor trained/instructed to flank or to conduct skirmishing. In my opinion, the same applies to atronachs, because Dremora are able (like the races of tamriel) to use a variety of weapons and fulfill different roles.

Don't Dremora have wars with each other, or other Deadra races (golden saints, dark secucers, Jygallag's Crystal Knights etc)?

If they did, wouldn't they need to have some sort of a balanced army composition?

User avatar
Lucy
 
Posts: 3362
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 4:55 am

Post » Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:22 am

Any user of heavy armor uses only heavy armor because they believe to be best. Mehrunes Dagon is, undoubtedly, a member of 'the heaviest armor is best' . Daedric armor and weapons that the Dremora use are the heaviest we have seen. Given this ideological view (which is well documented in game, in history and in other high fantasy), I think it is safe to assume that Dremora do not use light or medium armor.

But that's ok, those of us in light armor have a tactical advantage.

From history to modern warfare to fantasy to science fiction the debate has remained.

Maneuverability vs. Fortifications
Open Field vs. Siege
Light armor vs. Heavy armor
Paratroopers vs. Mech. Infantry
X-Wing vs. Y-Wing
User avatar
Makenna Nomad
 
Posts: 3391
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 10:05 pm

Post » Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:20 pm

Heaviest-is-best seems a bit far-fetched whenhttp://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130308194939/elderscrolls/images/4/48/Light_the_Dragonfires_Mehrunes_Dagon.png was basically wrecking the Imperial City bare-chested.
Although it is possible that he encourages the use of heavy armour amongst his followers - seeing how Mythic Dawn members conjure up what seems to be pretty heavy sets of armour in Oblivion - don't forget he also uses http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Dremora_%28Oblivion%29 who only wear robes.

The reason why all Dremora appear to wear heavy armor, I think, is more due to the fact that as a whole race, they appear to be quite akin to medieval knights, valuing honour, oaths, pride, and martial prowess above all else.
As such, it would seem logical that most of them, if not all of them, would favor heavy armor as a symbol of might and strength, the mages being the exception since it would hamper their magic abilities.
Furthermore, I don't really know if Dremora have a need for endurance and the such, meaning, how strong and enduring is a Dremora really, and just how much would heavy armor weigh them down effectively?

Also, afaik, Dremora are not exclusively employed by Mehrunes Dagon, seeing as at least two known clans (Foolkillers and Deathbringers Clans), are employed by Molag Bal.
As for the matter of war between Dremora, or at least between Daedric Princes, I am not knowledgeable enough on the subject to make a statement.
I don't know if Daedric Princes engage in "open warfare", the only time I have witnessed it directly was in the Shivering Isles, and I don't know if that was an exception to Daedric "politics" or not.

User avatar
TWITTER.COM
 
Posts: 3355
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 3:15 pm

Post » Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:59 am

Haha, I forgot that he sacked the Imperial City in the nvde.

You bring up some very interesting points about their culture. Truthfully, we can speculate on in-universe answers to this question until Bethesda gives us a firm answer in canon. But as it is now, we have neither seen nor read about Daedric light or medium armor, so it does not exist until Bethesda says it does.
User avatar
Jonathan Windmon
 
Posts: 3410
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:23 pm

Post » Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:28 pm

Contrary to popular belief, heavy armor in almost every aspect is better than light armor. However, effectiveness isn't the only calculation that comes into deciding what to wear. Light armor was much more widespread and common because it was inexpensive and materials required in its making were locally available. As the old saying goes, something is better than nothing. But as numerous experts in ancient, medieval, and early modern warfare have relayed; light armor wasn't worth much more than zero. Of course, sometimes soldiers were dressed in lighter armor because of their role on the battlefield, such as archers being able to fire their bows quickly and easily. Heavy armor didn't really afford much less movement than light armor did. Sure it often reduced your peripheral vision or occasionally prevented some basic movements such as forming a closed fist; but in general it wasn't much of a burden - the protection it afforded being well worth the costs.

But that's in the real world where things like glass and chainmail aren't considered light material.

My answer to this question, though, would be that the dremora are immortals with inhuman strength whose armor is partially made with the souls of their brethren. They all wear heavy armor because they've had an infinite, quite literally, amount of time to acquire and train in and fight in heavy armor. Why use lighter armors when you have the best? The slightly better maneuverability of light armor is a marginal gain at the heavy price of protection.

User avatar
yessenia hermosillo
 
Posts: 3545
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:31 pm

Post » Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:46 am

I always assumed the armor was actually apart of their bodies in the first place, hence why you can't just strip the stuff down off of them.

User avatar
sarah
 
Posts: 3430
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:53 pm

Post » Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:10 pm

The Dremora's armor can be looted off of the Valkynaz in Oblivion.

User avatar
Nicole Mark
 
Posts: 3384
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 7:33 pm

Post » Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:25 am

Zero weight Daedric armor, conjured and literally hacked into solid corporeal existence. Best of both worlds, does not hinder the wearer and protects like nothing else. Wish we could use this little trick in other games.
User avatar
Dean
 
Posts: 3438
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 4:58 pm

Post » Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:53 am

Ah, that's right. I never went back to Oblivion after Shivering Isles, so I forgot about that bit. Still, kinda like Skyrim and Morrowind's (IIRC, Fyr was the only person wearing a Daedric set that you could loot off of) take on it more. I don't remember those sets being particular good in Oblivion if I'm not mistaken.

User avatar
FITTAS
 
Posts: 3381
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2007 4:53 pm

Post » Tue Mar 10, 2015 10:02 pm

Wow guys, those are some pretty cool speculations/arguements!

It makes sense that Dremora are superhumanly strong and have been conditioned to use the armor exceptionally well, thus rendering the weight/fatique of the armor almost non-existant.

However, if daedric armor is weightless and offers marginal drawback in movement speed, why is it that Dremora Mages do not use it?

And is Daedric Armor that Dremora use trully weightless? Daedric Armor that can be found in Nirn always has weight like all other armor does, UNLESS it's bound armor. And that in fact causes another question: why is the true difference between Daedric Armor and Bound Armor?

And even the extremely good conditioning to the armor doesn't justify some other things: scouts and/or spies would probably have to use something not only lighter, but also less restrictive. Assuming of course that Dremora even have those; they could use Scamps but those probably are not as intelligent and capable. Additionally, if Dremora were if Daedric Armor does have weight like it does in Nirn, it would STILL provide advantage to the Dremora not using it in terms of weight and mobility, essentially allowing them to kite Dremora using heavy armor and retreat at their advance. However, if Daedric Armor doesn't weigh anything, then both of those points are moot.

But even so, maybe Dremora are culturally "above" using any sort of armor other than the heavy Deadric Armor. Still, I think that any Warrior Race would also go for efficiency, rather than only honor.

User avatar
Jynx Anthropic
 
Posts: 3352
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 9:36 pm

Post » Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:52 am

It's not truly weightless, I'm referring to a glitch in Oblivion that allows you to get zero weight Daedric armor and weapons.
User avatar
sarah simon-rogaume
 
Posts: 3383
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:41 am

Post » Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:35 am

The funny thing is, although all armour created that way was weightless, not all of it was considered "heavy armour" by the game, and some parts were labeled as light armour.

But I wanted to ask something about Daedric war: how often does it really happen on a grand scale? I mean sure, it happens; we saw some in multiple instances, but how frequent are they really?
Because if a Daedric Lord is all-powerful within his own realm, how does he invade the realm of another Prince (cases like Jyggalag's being a notable exception).
And in the case of invasions/attacks on Mundus, would they use advanced tactics as were discussed in the posts above, at all?
I mean, sure, the Oblivion Crisis was a very thought-out plan of attack, but the invasions themselves seemed more like just wave after wave of Daedra pouring out of Oblivion Gates right?
So do Daedra, with their OP respawning armies need/use advanced war tactics at all? Do the Dremora? Maybe they don't see the use of light skirmishes and harrassemant tactics because in their case they would just reform after a while. So instead they just crush enemies with the overwhelming numbers and power of their armies, since it guarantees a foothold gain at no real loss of manpower, since they'll be replenished soon enough.
Just throwing around some questions at random.

User avatar
Mark Hepworth
 
Posts: 3490
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:51 pm

Post » Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:21 am

Gee, I guess I need to play Oblivion again. I forgot that some of the conjured armor was light armor.

As to war between the Daedric princes, I do not know. My wife likes to make fun of the way I read books about lore in game :). I don't recall reading anything about Daedric war, but my memory is clearly starting to fade.
User avatar
Bigze Stacks
 
Posts: 3309
Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 5:07 pm

Post » Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:09 am

The only serious example of inter-daedra conflict we have is that Mehrunes Dagon's forces marched through Nocturnal's realm of Shade Perilous, and the Princeless realm of the Soul Cairn when they invaded the Battlespire.

User avatar
Lilit Ager
 
Posts: 3444
Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:06 pm

Post » Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:48 am

Good to know, thanks.
User avatar
Shannon Marie Jones
 
Posts: 3391
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:19 pm

Post » Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:28 am

In Oblivion, Dremora Robes were actually armor. They had armor ratings and the weight was comparable to armor.

User avatar
Chloe Mayo
 
Posts: 3404
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:59 pm

Post » Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:56 am

Huh.

Never bothered to pick up the robes, so I never got that. Nice detail.

User avatar
Kyra
 
Posts: 3365
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:24 am

Post » Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:59 pm

They're like the Spartans and Romans, leaving specialization to subordinate client-entities while they go fullbore for the heavyduty kit.

User avatar
mishionary
 
Posts: 3414
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:19 am

Post » Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:21 am


I see my nightblade getting some Daedric robes in the near future.
User avatar
Jay Baby
 
Posts: 3369
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:43 pm

Post » Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:20 am

It is heavy armour so it reduces spell efficiency and unobtainable by normal means (you can't loot it).

User avatar
Laura Samson
 
Posts: 3337
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:36 pm

Post » Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:38 am

Oooh pooh
User avatar
mike
 
Posts: 3432
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 6:51 pm

Post » Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:13 pm

You couldn't, as they are not flagged as playable.

Dremora robes are not flagged as playable, but that is something that can be modded.

User avatar
laila hassan
 
Posts: 3476
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2006 2:53 pm


Return to The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion