[Discussion] Let's talk about modding bandits...

Post » Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:05 pm

Greetings,

A few months ago I started working on a mod concept aimed at adding more character to the bandits, criminals and scums hidden in dungeons. To give the player another way to toy with them than killing them mercilessly for their loot. Giving how I tend to dissapear for long time from the modding scene for the other ES games, I prefer not to officially announce this project. Instead, I'd like to have a discussion about how to achieve that goal, suggestions and if other mods with similar goals are already in the works or released.

Here's how my mod works so far:

(It's a pretty long post.)

Basics

Bandits no longer attack the player on sight. Instead, they talk to him to know what is their business in their lair. If the player is persuasive enough, the bandits can allow the player inside for him to trade smuggled goods from their crates, train skills or buy/sell slaves. There are two possible situations when the player arrives in a cave: A generic one where the player's attributes and other traits are evaluated by the bandits and a unique scenario. (More details below)

Bandit gangs

Some bandit groups are part of a bigger gang. There are a lot of bandit lairs on Vvardenfell and none of them are affiliated with the main factions. I believe it might make sense to unify some of the groups under a larger banner. For example, it is known through the game's dialogue that smugglers on the Bitter Coast are paid by House Dagoth to smuggle their ash statues. Some bandit lairs located close to Dagoth Shrines on the Bitter Coast could be working together for House Dagoth.

The Dunmer stronghold of Hlormaren houses 25 bandits and is linked to the coast via a tunnel. This fortress is easily visible for authorities, yet nobody wants to move against them. This could be because it's the main base of a larger group of thugs hired by House Hlaalu to smuggle goods out of Vvardenfell in exchange for a percentage of the profits.

These bandit groups are most likely at war with the Thieves Guild, who do not want competition, and so it would make sense to merge some of them under a larger gang.

Interactions with the bandits

Bandits shouldn't attack everyone who enters their lair. Especially if the intruder is wearing powerful equipment. Bandits value their life and their smuggling operations. I believe negociations are the key to their survival.

The first bandit the player meets in a dungeon will talk to him in two possible scenario types: Generic and unique. Once admitted, all loot/containers in the dungeon belongs to the bandits of that location and they will attack the player if he is seen stealing from them.

- Generic scenario

Applied to most dungeons, the bandit greets the player and, if the player asks to be let inside, the bandit evaluates him based on several factors which affect the bandit's disposition towards the player. If the disposition is high enough, the bandit will agree to deal with the player. These are the factors I thought about:

  • Vampire check: If the player shows his teeth. Bandits will most likely let him inside
  • Imperial Legion check: The bandit may be frightened if the player is wearing the Legion's uniform.
  • Gear check: The bandit compares the player's gear value with the overall gear of his comrades. Will be impressed if the player has better gear.
  • Reputation check: Only if player discloses his name. A high reputation will not impress the bandit.
  • Faction check: Only if player has a high reputation. Bandit will recognize him as a member of that faction and may not be impressed.
  • Player level check: The bandit compares the player's level with the overall level of his comrades. Will be impressed if the player is higher leveled.
  • Slave freed check: Applies to slavers. The bandit will not be impressed if the player is known as an abolitionist.
  • Bounty check: If player is a wanted criminal, the bandit will be impressed.

Of course, when those checks are over and the bandit still doesn't want to let the player in, the player can still use persuasion or bribe.

- Unique scenario

Applied to some dungeons, this is a different scenario for the places they're applied to. Most common to these scenarios are the dungeons where a quest-related NPC is located. Examples are:

  • Player is mistaken for the bandits' contact.
  • Bandits pose as adventurers who have just cleared the cave of outlaws.
  • Bandits have a password.
  • A group of slavers require a slave before they can let the player in.
  • Bandits are a group of runaway deserters.
  • The bandits require the player to clear a rival bandit lair for admission.
  • The bandits wants the player to help them get in good terms with the local Thieves Guild.
  • Arkngthand/Puzzle box quest: Being able to buy the puzzle box from the bandits.
  • Bounty quests: Being able to help/force the outlaw to disappear from the authorities instead of killing him.

Conclusion

Well, that was what I was thinking about for that mods' features. I got this idea from playing the game with my level 70 Altmer-Nerevarine-wizard, known across the land for his deeds, and clearing the map's bandit lairs left and right without any resistance or plea for mercy.

As mentioned, I've already started working on it. The generic scenario for admittance inside a bandit's cave is almost finished. It just needs to be copy-pasted and modified to suit each bandit lair's factors such as NPC level and gear.

What do you think about adding more character to the game's bandits? Do you have ideas for unique scenarios and other features that could make interacting with bandits much more interesting for the player?

I'm all ears. :smile:

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.X chantelle .x Smith
 
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Post » Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:25 pm

I would be all for this, especially as bandits don't seem to get as much attention as other areas of Morrowind. Plus I like that Arkngthand quest. I don't know why, but for some reason I have always been interested in Snowy Granius, probably just because of the way he is positioned on the bridge with the crates and barrels positioned near him, like he uses them to hide so he can sneak up on travelers, plus because Snowy seems like a nickname. I always though it would be nice if he issued a warning to the player instead of just attacking.

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Kathryn Medows
 
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Post » Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:51 pm

I think it's a great idea. Most of the dungeons in the game really do seem quite pointless.

I was working on a mod a very long time ago that was somewhat similar to this. Mine was more-so just a LGNPC-Dungeons deal though, trying to add a unique "storyline" and overhaul to every dungeon sort of like how Skyrim did. I only ended up doing the dungeons immediately around Seyda Neen before I got distracted with another project though. I still fondly remember remaking Addamasartus (the cave outside SN) into a "newbie adventurer farm" where bandits had been running a smuggler camp but after Vvardenfell opened to the public the influx wannabe adventurers stumbling into their cave had turned out to be a more economically sound source of income. I had also made the nearby Thelas tomb into a storage area for Drarayne's pillow hoarde, much to the dismay of her kin, which had resulted in a rat infestation of Seyda Neen that the town people complained about until you found the source. I also recall doing silly things with Mentor's Ring and the Grotto's daedric ruins, but I digress. :D

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Rex Help
 
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Post » Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:08 am

I like where you are going with the 6th House smugglers - there is definitely a story there

Would you do a forcedgreeting with some of the smugglers/bandits?

If you are Thieves Guild I would have thought they would be more inclined to do business with you - though some should still attack on sight because not everyone should just wander into a cave,

Nice creative thinking :)

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Tammie Flint
 
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Post » Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:34 am

I've always been interested in that character as well. I imagine him as a bandit who's watching the Legion at the nearby Fort, warning his group if a patrol is coming. For the travelers, he could also ask for a toll. A player who's just started the main quest would be the perfect target. For an extra bribe, he could be let inside to pay the boss for the puzzle box.

It's a good story for Addamasartus. From Eldafire in Seyda Neen, you learn that the bandits in Addamasartus bribe the Legion so they can be left alone with their smuggling. Seyda Neen being a port town from which outlanders arrive, it could indeed be a viable source of income. :smile:

By the way, if you're wearing the Legion's uniform, the Dunmer by the campfire can be persuaded to give you a bribe if you promise to leave them alone.

The bandits indeed use force greet, though only if they see the player. They do not greet if the player is invisible or succesfully sneaking. Also, if the player sneaks past the first bandit and is spotted further in the cave, he's considered an intruder and attacked.

Yes it's something I'm wondering about the Thieves Guild. On one hand, it's known that they do not tolerate competition and will try to recruit independant thieves. On the other hand, they're fairly new on Vvardenfell and under pressure by the Cammona Tong, so maybe they can't really afford to force independant smuggling rings to join them..

Maybe smuggling rings composed of outlanders could be more tolerant to the Thieves Guild? I'd see other groups being outcasts of the Guild. Thieves who did not like how things worked in the Guild and who decided to split up.

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lacy lake
 
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