Spells change requirements mid-game? : IV

» Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:52 pm

I have noticed that some spells apparently spontaneously change their requirements during gameplay, one time I use a spell just fine and later I can't use it any more because it suddenly requires a higher skill level. This has happened with a number of spells already, most recently with the "Mute" spell which changed from Expert (Illusion 75) to Master (Illusion 100). I am 100% sure that I already used this exact spell with the same character (I don't have any other characters, anyway). Also, when I load all plugins in TES4Edit, including those that are merged into the Bashed Patch, the only mod that affects this spell is "Supreme Magicka", and it clearly is an Expert Spell - also in the Bashed Patch itself. So what could have caused the requirement to rise in my game? I have studied the Supreme Magicka ini file thoroughly and could not find any indication that it could be responsible for this (would be a strange feature, anyway), and I have no idea what else could affect these spells.

Active Mod Files:

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00  Oblivion.esm01  All Natural Base.esm  [Version 1.34]02  Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items Mod.esm  [Version 5.0]03  Francesco's Optional New Items Add-On.esm  [Version 5.0]04  Francesco's Optional New Creatures Add-On.esm  [Version 5.0]05  DA Run Fatigue.esm06  Unofficial Oblivion Patch.esp  [Version 3.5.2]07  Oblivion Citadel Door Fix.esp08  DLCShiveringIsles.esp09  Unofficial Shivering Isles Patch.esp  [Version 1.5.6]**  MOBS SI.esp  [Version 2.0]**  Oblivion Vwalk UOS.esp**  DLCShiveringIsles Vwalk UOS.esp**  DLCShiveringIsles Vwalk DG_DS UOS.esp0A  Francesco's Creatures and Items Resources.esp  [Version 5.0]0B  FransCalipersBeGone.esp0C  Natural_Habitat_by_Max_Tael.esp0D  All Natural.esp  [Version 1.35]0E  All Natural - SI.esp  [Version 1.35]0F  GOSH.esp10  Sounds of Cyrodiil.esp  [Version 1.1]11  Better Rainbows.esp12  All Natural - Real Lights.esp  [Version 1.35]13  WindowLightingSystem.esp14  AliveWaters.esp15  AliveWaters - Koi Addon.esp16  AliveWaters - Slaughterfish Addon.esp17  7lbsBedrolls-OBSE.esp18  VanityCameraSmoother.esp++  Cyrodilic Brandy.esp19  diversegrasses.esp1A  Glowing Wonders.esp**  New Potions.esp1B  Oblivion Cats v0.2b.esp1C  See You Sleep DLL.esp1D  See You Sleep DLL - Vampire Bedroll Anims.esp1E  PTFallingStars.esp1F  RAEVWD New Sheoth.esp  [Version 1.7]**  VA_BetterGold.esp20  Walk to Oblivion - OBSE.esp21  CTEFastSaver.esp22  DarNifiedUI Config Addon.esp23  Display Stats.esp  [Version 2.0.1]24  DropLitTorchOBSE.esp  [Version 2.4]25  FormID Finder4.esp26  Lock Bash Omega.esp  [Version 1.5]27  MigMiscellanea.esp  [Version 1.8]28  Note to Self.esp29  P1DlookHereYou.esp2A  UnidirectionalAttack.esp2B  Vacuity.esp  [Version 0.2]2C  Enhanced Hotkeys.esp  [Version 2.3.1]2D  DLCHorseArmor.esp2E  DLCHorseArmor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.8]2F  DLCOrrery.esp30  DLCOrrery - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.6]**  DLCOrrery Vwalk.esp31  DLCVileLair.esp32  DLCVileLair - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.10]33  See You Sleep DLL - DLCVileLair.esp34  DLCMehrunesRazor.esp35  DLCMehrunesRazor - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.7]**  DLCMehrunesRazor Vwalk UOP.esp36  Sounds of Cyrodiil - Mehrune's Razor Add-On.esp  [Version 1.0]37  DLCSpellTomes.esp++  DLCSpellTomes - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.1]38  Adonnays Elven Weaponry.esp39  Aragorns Royal Gear.esp3A  BookCollisionTest.esp++  CM_Better Wine_SI.esp3B  Crossbows of Cyrodiil.esp++  RustyItems.esp3C  Weapons Of Morrowind.esp  [Version 1.0]3D  Weapons Of Morrowind - Daedric Crescent.esp3E  Slof's Horses Base.esp3F  Slof's Extra Horses.esp40  kuerteeHorseCommands.esp41  Dude Wheres My Horse.esp42  DLCThievesDen.esp43  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.13]44  DLCThievesDen - Unofficial Patch - SSSB.esp  [Version 1.0.13]**  DLCThievesDen Vwalk UOP.esp45  Sounds of Cyrodiil - Thieves' Den Add-On.esp  [Version 1.0]46  Francesco's More Wilderness Life.esp  [Version 5.0]47  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Bosses.esp  [Version 5.0]48  Francesco's Optional Chance of Stronger Enemies.esp  [Version 5.0]49  Francesco's Optional Dungeon Chest Loot.esp  [Version 5.0]4A  Francesco's Optional Dungeon Chest Locks.esp  [Version 5.0]4B  Francesco's Optional Leveled Guards.esp  [Version 5.0]4C  Francesco's Optional House Chest Loot.esp  [Version 5.0]4D  Francesco's Optional New Adventurers.esp  [Version 5.0]++  Francesco's Optional Vendor Tweaks.esp  [Version 5.0]4E  Francesco's Optional Chance of More Enemies.esp  [Version 5.0]4F  Francesco's Optional Leveled Quests.esp  [Version 5.0]50  Francesco's Optional Leveled Arena.esp  [Version 5.0]51  Creature Diversity.esp52  Imperial Furniture Renovated.esp53  Ancient Ruins - Ayleid Edition.esp54  Anduril Reforged.esp55  Artifacts.esp56  SB IC Palace Tower Light Mod v1.1 - Constant Yellow Light.esp57  ImpeREAL City Unique Districts - All the Districts - Merged.esp58  ImpeREAL Empire - Unique Castles - All The Castles - Merged.esp59  Kvatch Rebuilt.esp  [Version 3.0]++  Kvatch Rebuilt Fixes.esp5A  Kvatch Rebuilt - No More Burned Ground.esp5B  Kvatch Rebuilt Weather Patch.esp5C  MTCGlarthirsHouse.esp5D  ReneersContainerMod.esp5E  Wayshrines Enhanced.esp5F  White Gold Top.esp60  DLCBattlehornCastle.esp61  DLCBattlehornCastle - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.10]62  DLCFrostcrag.esp63  DLCFrostcrag - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.0.9]**  DLCFrostcrag Vwalk.esp64  Knights.esp++  Better Unique Items.esp65  Knights - Unofficial Patch.esp  [Version 1.1.6]**  Knights Vwalk UOP.esp66  SM Plugin Refurbish(Merged).esp  [Version 1.30]67  Sounds of Cyrodiil - KOTN Add-on.esp  [Version 1.0]**  DLC_MOBS.esp  [Version 2.0]68  Roads of Cyrodiil.esp  [Version 1.0]69  JungleHasMoreGroundcover.esp6A  Farolillo.esp6B  xuldarkforest.esp  [Version 1.0.5]6C  xulStendarrValley.esp  [Version 1.2.2]6D  xulTheHeath.esp6E  FranMWL-TheHeath patch.esp6F  XulEntiusGorge.esp  [Version 1.2.1]70  xulFallenleafEverglade.esp  [Version 1.3.1]71  xulColovianHighlands_EV.esp  [Version 1.2.2]72  xulChorrolHinterland.esp  [Version 1.2.3]73  xulBeachesOfCyrodiilLostCoast.esp  [Version 1.6.5]74  xulBravilBarrowfields.esp  [Version 1.3.4]75  xulLushWoodlands.esp  [Version 1.3.2]76  xulAncientYews.esp  [Version 1.4.4]77  xulAncientRedwoods.esp  [Version 1.6]78  ROC+Ancient Redwoods.esp  [Version 1.0]79  xulCloudtopMountains.esp  [Version 1.0.3]7A  xulArriusCreek.esp  [Version 1.1.4]7B  xulPatch_AY_AC.esp  [Version 1.1]7C  xulRollingHills_EV.esp  [Version 1.3.3]7D  xulPantherRiver.esp7E  xulRiverEthe.esp  [Version 1.0.2]7F  xulBrenaRiverRavine.esp  [Version 1.1.1]80  xulImperialIsle.esp  [Version 1.6.8]81  xulBlackwoodForest.esp  [Version 1.1.0]82  xulCheydinhalFalls.esp  [Version 1.0.1]83  KvatchRebuilt-CheydinhalFalls patch.esp  [Version 2.0]84  xulAspenWood.esp  [Version 1.0.2]85  xulSkingradOutskirts.esp  [Version 1.0.2]86  ROC+UL Skingrad Outskirts Patch.esp87  xulSnowdale.esp  [Version 1.0.5]88  xulCliffsOfAnvil.esp  [Version 1.12]89  xulSilverfishRiverValley.esp  [Version 1.0.3]8A  xulJerallGlacier.esp  [Version 1.0.1]8B  xulTheEasternPeaks.esp  [Version 1.0]8C  ROC+UL-II Patch.esp  [Version 1.0]8D  ImpeREAL Empire - Unique Forts.esp**  ImpeREAL Empire - Unique Forts - Slofs Horses - By Xtudo.esp8E  ImpeREAL Forts + Silverfish River Patch.esp8F  Harvest [Flora].esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - Shivering Isles.esp  [Version 3.0.0]++  Harvest [Flora] - DLCVileLair.esp  [Version 3.0.0]90  Harvest [Flora] - DLCFrostcrag.esp  [Version 3.0.0]91  Bag of Alchemy.esp92  Clean Spellbook.esp  [Version 2.0.3]93  HUD Status Bars.esp  [Version 5.3.2]94  Dungeon Actors Have Torches 1.6 DT.esp95  GalerionLeveling-Revised.esp96  HorseJumpFixer.esp++  Improved Fires and Flames - Increased Sound.esp97  Leviathan Soulgems.esp98  P1DkeyChain.esp  [Version 5.00]99  Enhanced Vegetation [125%].esp9A  SkycaptainsBloodTime.esp9B  tag_NaturalWildlife.esp9C  talkwithyourhands2.esp9D  Toggleable Quantity Prompt.esp  [Version 3.2.0]9E  VanillaCombatEnhanced.esp++  VCEClassOverhaul.esp9F  Immersive Mining.espA0  DA Sprint.espA1  RealSleepExtended.esp  [Version 2.5]A2  Ashes to Ashes.esp  [Version 1.0]++  Vampire Fire by Darkhart.espA3  SupremeMagicka.esp  [Version 0.90b]A4  SM_ShiveringIsles.esp  [Version 0.90]++  SM_DLCSpellTome.esp  [Version 0.90]A5  SM_EnchantStaff.esp  [Version 0.90]++  SM_Scrolls.esp  [Version 0.90]A6  MidasSpells.espA7  Poison FX.espA8  Syc_AtHomeAlchemy_No_Bounty_v2.espA9  Lightweight Potions.esp  [Version 1.1]AA  SM Bounty.esp  [Version 1.22c]AB  Enhanced Grabbing.esp  [Version 0.5]AC  Duke Patricks - Combat Archery.esp  [Version 7.3.5]++  Duke Patricks - Combat Archery Patch.esp++  Increased Restoration and Mercantile Leveling Rates.espAD  Kaizits New Animations PC.espAE  Kaizits New Animations NPC.espAF  CT-Argonian Headstyles.espB0  Nords With Beards.esp++  Better Redguard v2.espB1  Oblivion_Character_Overhaul.esp  [Version 2.0]++  OCOv2-BR.espB2  ScriptedArgonianFeet.espB3  Companion Compatibility.esp**  ROC Standard Road Record.esp**  All Natural - Indoor Weather Filter For Mods.esp  [Version 1.35]B4  OblivionReloaded.esp++  nu_dwarven_f_cuirass.espB5  Xivilai Lord.espB6  Bashed Patch.espB7  Looting Mechanics Overhaul.espB8  Automatic HUD.espB9  GalerionSlowerLeveling-v10.espBA  HumanBlood.espBB  Rain.espBC  CCC - All in One.espBD  Chorrol Well.esp  [Version sch]BE  Chorrol Shortcut.espBF  LeveledItemsImprovedEV.espC0  DiverseAlchemyApparates.esp

edit: OBSE Plugins

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OBSE Version: 0.0.21.4
AddActorValues.dll
AddActorValues_CS.dll
Blockhead.dll Version: 10.3.8.512
ChangeConsoleKey.dll
Elys_USV.dll
EnhancedMusicControl 2.dll
MenuQue.dll
NifSE.dll
OblivionReloaded.dll Version: 1.6.0.0
OBSE_Elys_Pluggy.dll
OBSE_Elys_Uncapper.dll
OBSE_EnhancedCamera.dll
obse_jail_fix.dll
OBSE_Kyoma_MenuQue.dll
obse_training_fix.dll
playerphysics.dll
SeeYouSleep.dll
sr_Oblivion_Stutter_Remover.dll
Trifle.dll Version: 2.1.6.1015

» Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:24 pm

Is there a drain luck affect active on your character? Since luck works behind the scenes to affect skills, I've been in situations where I could no longer cast certain spells because of skill issues while under a spriggans curse. That's the only thing I can think of. I've been using Supreme Magicka for a while and never noticed skill level requirements changing mid game.

» Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:01 am

No, my Luck is alright, also afaik this would only affect spell magicka costs, not raise their mastery level requirement. Also, I know that it said "requires skill level 75" before and not 100, because I specifically trained towards this value to be able to use it. And when I had reached it, I could. Illusion (and other skills of which spells had this issue) was never above 100 on my character, not even close, so I'm certain that I could not have been able to use it before if it already had this requirement before.

Also, now I have loaded an earlier save game, just before I aquired the spell in Bravil Mages Guild and it requires a skill of 100 now, as well. As I said, all plugins that affect the spell say it's an expert level spell, so it should require 75 skill points, but in the game it clearly says 100.

Edited the OP with the OBSE plugins.

» Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:14 pm

Sometimes when a spell has a spell cost that is exactly on the border between two mastery levels it is rounded differently in game than the CS or tes4edit say. There is no consistency behind it though. It can work as displayed, but when you change something, i.e. rebuild your Bashed Patch, it can suddenly jump to the next mastery level. Mute isn't a vanilla magic effect though and probably has a set spell cost and mastery level (not auto calculated) so that might not be the case here. I cannot think of anything else though. If the mastery level is fixed and suddenly changes there must be a severe bug going on.

» Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:44 am

Huh, I have no idea what might be causing it. Must be a mod, but I can't tell you which one, and I have not experienced anything like that with Supreme Magicka, but my load order is quite a bit different. I noticed you have quite a bit loading after the bashed patch. Might want to look into whether those should be loaded higher.

» Sat Jun 06, 2015 4:43 am

Mute is a vanilla spell -- expert level Illusion with a silence effect.

» Sat Jun 06, 2015 5:59 am

These are not recognized by BOSS, but none of them touches spells even remotely and according to TES4Edit none of them has any significant conflicts that would necessarily require loading them before the bashed patch. I'm quite certain none of them is responsible. But it it clearly seems to be a mod issue, maybe I should try deactivating them one by one and see if anything changes.

And yes, Mute is a vanilla spell with a silence effect. Supreme Magicka only changes its duration and costs.

But wait... Kobal, are you saying that the required mastery level is dependent on the magicka cost? If so, which values correspond to which mastery level? According to TES4Edit, the spell currently has a base cost of 393, which is 90 more than in vanilla - the new value comes from Supreme Magicka. So, lowering it could reduce it to expert again? If so, it must have had a lower cost before... Don't know how, but then again I constantly add and remove mods, though none come to mind which would affect spells in such a way.

edit: It appears that the border for master spells is 400... but this is only the base cost, right? So an expert spell is always an expert spell, no matter how high your skills actually are? I'm sorry, I play Oblivion for the first time now (but I have plenty of experience with mods from Morrowind), so I'm not entirely certain about all aspects of the game. Is there maybe a game setting or something that changes these borders?

edit: is there a way to find out a spells base cost in the running game?