This is not so much a theological question, but a question of national consciousness. The Imperial influence erodes the sense of national self by incorporation of a more cosmopolitan world view.

Do you drink Milk since only Nords drink Milk. Only the strongest of Nords drink Milk.

Excuse me, but did I mention anything about Nazis and death camps? Also, did I mention anything about race? Typical Lefty tactic though, when you don't have an argument you resort to playing either the Nazi card or race card.

There you go though fellas, we're so hamstrung by the "Left" in England that to be patriotic equals racist!

Mate, you're the one who started on about how people should forget/abandon their "ethnic identities" or they're bound to turn traitor, or whatever right-wing guff you've been spouting. And yes, you literally brought up Nazi Germany!! Look:

But then, the right in this country does like to blatantly lie about stuff when it's easily disproven, so I shouldn't be surprised.

Sorry, everyone, I really won't keep this going any further, that just made me laugh.

Your culture isn't your race. For example, a Frenchman is Caucasian, but has a significantly different culture to someone from England. But I forget, the Left have a very hard time telling the difference, don't they? To the Left culture equals race, which it doesn't in anyway shape or form. As for bringing up Nazis, I simply pointed out that a large amount of "German-Americans" saw themselves as more German than American, and as a result turned traitor during WWII. Hence why multiculturalism doesn't and will never work. Want anymore evidence of how dysfunctional multiculturalism is? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3317776/Machine-gun-fire-heard-central-Paris-police-flood-scene-not-far-Charlie-Hebdo-shootings.htmlhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3317776/Machine-gun-fire-heard-central-Paris-police-flood-scene-not-far-Charlie-Hebdo-shootings.html

"No man or woman can have more than one master."

BTW: If you think Theodore Roosevelt was racist, I'd like to point out that the Americans have named one of their Nimitz carriers after him, and they don't name those things after presidents who they consider big flops like Nixon or Bush Jr.

Please don't stop, bringing real world left vs right + some other stuff, makes this a great popcorn thread.

Where do you get off telling people how they must identify themselves? Where is all this political attack nonsense coming from? Can't we have a civil conversation about fantasy notions without turning it into some kind of hate-fest?

Fascinating! The debate between my two compatriots is of course a long running and firmly entrenched political battleground in this country. The most important thing often overlooked by both sides is that at least we are fortunate enough that you are even ALLOWED to have such views aired publicly without getting arrested. Extremes of either agenda lead inevitably to dictatorships of some sort that are definitely bad news for the populace. So it is, that the eternal left vs right struggle, leads to a dynamic balance and in the end, for the average citizen, provides an uneasy harmony.

I want people to be able to live freely in my country in what ever way they choose, but in turn I want the right to be patriotic and fly my flag too (the white one with a Red Cross on it). I want citizens to be allowed to celebrate their ancestors cultural traditions, but I won't be told that I can't have a Christmas tree ( well our governments are more devious than to simply make Christmas illegal.....what they would actually do . is ban the selling of the trees, then the cards and finally all advertising portraying Christmas........you get the point).

Most Nords probably feel the same but the extremes of empirical diktat and Ulfric's racism is wrecking the balance of their quiet little lives. Maybe you know.....the Thalmor should be in charge.....at least the trains would run on time

(Disclaimer.....my views are expressed soley on my behalf without prejudice or expectation and in no way alter or demean the rights or privileges enjoyed by any individual therin)

Edit....Glargg. Nope! Even if you limit the politics to the Skyrim fantasy realm.....look how hot it gets! We love to fight and get all territorial about our views. Any excuse will do. It's a human thing

The difference between me and Ulfric Stormcloak, is that I wouldn't reject the Dunmer and other races, but I'd expect them to integrate into Nord society 100%. They'd have to think of the Stormcloak flag as theirs and think of themselves to be Nords. If they don't, then one day they could easily turn on us if part of their schizoid identity is ever threatened, just like a lot of German-Americans sided with the Axis in WWII, or Muslims living in France start bombing and shooting innocent people in the centre of Paris. The day they realise that they must conform to the ways of the countries they live in will be the day they'll be accepted.

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do"

I know that the word "patriotism" is a dirty word in Skyrim (i.e. England) now because of all the "Thalmor" hugging Lefties, but that mentality is exactly what causes things like last night's massacre in Paris. Those who let Thalmor (i.e. IS) agents live amongst us are as much traitors to the Stormcloaks as the Thalmor who slaughter innocent Nord civilians.

He was both wrong and right... What makes America a great country is that we can be American and celebrate our heritage. I don't put a hyphen infront of American... but it would be rather ludicrous if I did. Italian-Polish-Welsh-German-Potowatomi-Cree-Cherokee- American... Now that's one heck of a mouthful. ...So I tell people I'm a true American Mutt.

But that doesn't mean that My Grandmother didn't have us Celebrate our Italian & Polish heritage ... That Grandpa didn't teach us of our Native American Heritage. Grama spoke Italian and Polish Fluently... along with English... Grampa spoke 3 different Native American Languages along with Gaelic...and English...( talk about funny when they got mad at each other). My Fathers family didn't have much to do with us... but I still learned what I could of the heritage of that half of my family.

One should celebrate those things that make us different... otherwise, we could just clone the "perfect" person and have a perfect society.. with no differences from one person/ country to another.... OMG.. their are horror movies about that. I have learned the cultures of 3 very different "Spanish" based cultures... Cuban ( in Florida), Mexican & Texan in Texas ( and yes... their IS a difference...just ask them...lol)

Anyway... I think Roosevelt was wrong and correct.. one should not put the ( insert country of ethnic origin) before being American... but we are who we were.. and we would not be who we are if not for who we were...and that should never be forgotten. IMO

The differences in view points of the People of Skyrim are the same way... Nord's, Orc's, Forsworn.. and everyone else who is living their... Other than bandits and dragons, it would be rather boring if their weren't other view points.

I was just watching the news. They were interviewing French people from loads of ethnicities, including a black Frenchman who was saved from being killed by his mobile phone! The one thing they all had in common is that they all came across as French. I especially liked seeing all the French people waving their national flag whilst singing their anthem. Now there's real patriotism. One people under one flag, all identifying themselves as French! I mean, it gets me right here *thumps chest* to see the French showing their patriotism in their own country, and I'm not even French! On the other hand, if that had happened here we wouldn't dare wave our flags (http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01614/stGeorgeFlag_1614013c.jpg or https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e6/White_Dragon_Flag_of_England.png) or sing our https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoJqhoBUT14 in fear of being called "racist" by the Left!

If this was an ideal world then everything would be like it is in Star Trek, all people getting along and viewing their cultural identities as something "quaint", but I'm afraid that we've got a lot of evolving to do before we get to that stage of enlightenment. As present, whilst some people are determined to use their cultures as weapons (like in Paris), then the rest of us have to use our cultures as a means of defense.

Clan mentality is at the root of the "us/them" thinking that allows conflict to arise.

[EDIT]

Nevermind

Yeah, I should "nevermind" too.

+1 Glargg on 'clan mentality'. Yes, in my post 33.....my last comments in the edit. It's a human thing to look for alignments and then defend them to the death....quite literally. We have fought wars since the first bone club was raised.

But you know what.....its a necessary thing. For survival.....as a species. I'm talking big view here as humans.....not the horror of current events....just to be clear!

It's like the gene pool......all different versions of 'human' but necessary to prevent stagnation as a species and eventual extinction. So it is with those differences in cultures and allegiances that create conflict also ensure we have new, fresh, starts and societies that keep us invigorated. If we were all as one, like clones, we would die....inside at first.....then physically too. We have an inbuilt need to form alliances and fight those not in them to keep us.....human.

No charge for the divine insight

Ya know until everyone answers Race(?) as Human... we'll have issues. Nature of the beast.

To misquote one of my favorite authors, "what this world needed to bring us together was an alien threat"

The trouble with Ulfric's brand of patriotism is that he's taken it to the level of race, which it shouldn't ever be. Patriotism is of the mind and heart, not of the pigment of your skin. Admittedly he was brainwashed by the Thalmor, but that's part of the reason I can never side with him. The other reason is because his Civil War is unintentionally sabotaging the Empire's attempts to build a force strong enough in the south that can actually defeat the Dominion. In my opinion siding with the Empire is a no brainer, especially if Dragonborn can help the Empire him/herself afterwards, which mine intends to do. Ahh, the greatness of PC mods...

Maybe that's why Starfleet keeps finding enemies? Humans might be all brotherly, but if they're not fighting Klingons or the Romulans, then they're fighting either the Borg or the Dominion! I know it's all fiction, but chances are if we're not fighting one another, then we'll find someone up there ^^^^ to fight!