What's happening with Fallout 4 is exactly what is happening with another series which I love - Spyro.

For those who don't know, Spyro was a 3D cartoony platformer, first developed by Insomniac Games. Their contract was with the (now defunct) publisher Universal Interactive. Spyro had 3 awesome games developed by Insomniac, and it was at a high point in the series.

Unfortunately, Insomniac stated that they would leave Spyro after the third one. Whether they left it because they were bored or the publisher pried it off their hands is unknown. So, what happened afterwards?

There was a fourth Spyro game (Enter the Dragonfly), made by two unknown studios with no track records and a language barrier. It was a copycat of the third game, and critics panned it for being buggy and glitchy.

Instead of trying to fix those issues, the publisher decided that the next game will change its mechanics. It was a good attempt (A Hero's Tail) but it actually didn't get what Spyro was all about.

Then, came its impending doom. Spyro was rebooted twice, leaving the fanbase completely divided. After all that, I lost all hope that Spyro would ever be resurrected and I vowed to make a spiritual successor once I have the means to do so.

I see a similar pattern emerging in Fallout. Someday, a good number of us will have enough of the streamlining and go towards other series, just like most of Spyro's fans did. All because more money requires more style over substance. I wouldn't be surprised if Fallout would be rebooted into an Alien vs Predator setting, if there was more money in it.

I'm trying to be optimistic but lately I just don't know. I've been screwed over before as a fan, and I know how it feels like to have a childhood series ripped apart and put back together only using a few pieces.

I don't think you have anything to worry about. The Fallout series has been going strong now for many years. It's actually more popular now than it's ever been, so I don't see it going away for quite some time. If ever...

Could you elaborate a bit more on what you're disappointed in?

That's not what I'm worried about.

I'm worried that Fallout would become exactly what Skylanders is. Style over substance.

Also, I'm worried that because of the eventualities, that the Fallout veteran fans would eventually leave and just focus on the "good old days".

I'm kind of worried, not as much about the streamlining, but about what looks like a pattern of them trying to please so many fans of different genres (the FPS crowd, the Sims crowd, the go everywhere and do everything every time crowd, etc.) that they end up completely losing focus and end up pleasing no one.

If you're referencing the hardcoe rpgs that F1,2 were, then yeah... a modern day, massive budget game that's pulling probably the biggest crowed at E3 won't be that.

tbh, I considerFallout 3 a masterpiece of its time, and a game that's still on par with semi-modern releases today. Fallout 4 won't be perfect for everyone, but I think it looks really good so far, and mods exist to cater small details to individual needs, so that's okay. I really don't think there's much to worry about.

Wasteland 2. Give it a try for a good old school fallout feel.

As far as Fallout goes, with the direction that FO3 sent us in, I REALLY like what was seen at E3. Fallout 4 is going to refine what was set as a baseline with FO3 and FNV.


Yes, it will still be a RPG, but due to the FP/TP perspective, things that exist in isometric games just don't work, or feel... Awkward.

Real time combat is a tricky beast. How much influence should stats have vs a players skill at FPS games.

VATs is a great way to mix the genres together, and lets players that are less familiarized with shooters to keep up with combat without being overwhelmed.


As far as 1-100 skills going by the wayside, I feel like it was a needed break from the old games.

Some skills just felt empty to begin with. Barring random dialog thresholds, many skills were worthless unless at 25/50/75/100.

What I would love to see, is multiple different ways to earn skill points through picking related skills.

Picking the Cyborg or Robotics expert perk for example could each increase the "science" skill.

Gun nut could boost both the guns and repair (what seems to be crafting now)

Cyborg could even be EW/science.



A new implementation doesn't need to be bad, but simply a new foundation to build upon.

This is an downside of using the most popular mods on nexus as your feature plan.

Overall i'm happy, main issue is the dialogue system however they might simply use an bumper as shift if more than 4 dialogue options and another system for mouse. This is the major issue, the rest is minor stuff I don't agree with but can easy live with.

I'm mostly an TES player so my preferences will be different from an old fallout player.

There is a saying that the key to failure is to try to please everybody.

Well, I was always sceptical about Skyrim but I enjoy it. But (and this is a big but) I can only enjoy it with 90-100 different mods. Probably going to be the same with Fallout 4, there will always be mods to add back the missing features.

On the other hand, Oblivion needed way more mods to be enjoyable for me, so many that it's unstable.

Problem is that not everybody can use mods, and it will take some time for the mods I want to appear.

I actually want another game like New Vegas, not the originals. Open world FPS RPG with C&C, which can be easily modded.

And I only scratched the surface with the originals - my first Fallout game was Fallout 3. I just thought Bethesda would improve upon the base they already had without gutting out anything.

But, unless I missed something... You started with FO3, and then played FNV... Which you liked.


What are you seeing in FO4 that signals a downward spiral?

Everything I've seen thus far has been awesome and builds on the successes of the previous two.

This is exactly what I would prefer as well. Unfortunately Bethesda gave us a teaser with Fallout 3 and Skyrim about the direction they want to take the series. As much as it svcks, Fallout is never going to be an RPG with C&C again (unless maybe Obsidian makes another one).

The series is going to be reduced even further into a sandbox/simulator I'm sure. The way I'm dealing with this is that Fallout ended with New Vegas, right now we're getting what looks to be a very fun game that is copying a lot of the mechanics from other developers instead of making a Fallout game. In the end we're left with TES: Wasteland 2 w/ Ft. by Bioware, Gearbox and Irrational Games.

I do, do wish that it's just like a Fallout 3 with the improvements of NV and Skyrim.

But it looks like the important improvements from NV are not going to make it.

This is what I worry about.

What have we seen that shows a lack of C&C?

We've seen very limited use of the new dialog. I would say it is quite early to jump the gun and claim the sky is falling.

It's just with Skyrim, Bethesda promised C&C and didn't deliver it.

Looking at what we have so far, it looks like a NV-style main questline with the excitement and explosions from Fallout 3. That would be a dream, and I'm worried that we may not see it.

In the video where they show meeting the robot again after 200 years they said if I recall correctly that you could have just shot the robot instead of talking to it. Which means the robot doesn't go to get you food like it says it would in the video, as well as anything else the robot ends up doing for you. What is that if not a choice and a consequence?

On another note I'm not a fan of using "C&C" to talk about it, initially I was left wondering why you were mentioning "Command and Conquer" of all things, it confused me for a bit.

Beth is also one to learn from mistakes.

Its quite possible that they saw what they did wrong in Skyrim, and prevented it from happening in FO4.


Too early to know.

Envy123, on 16 Jun 2015 - 09:31 AM, said:

Right, not sure how I missed that part.

I'm worried that Fallout would become exactly what Skylanders is. Style over substance.

Also, I'm worried that because of the eventualities, that the Fallout veteran fans would eventually leave and just focus on the "good old days".

Ha.. Many have been doing that on these forums for years. It's kind of sad really. Face it, just like everything else in the universe; games are going to change.

I'm one of those annoyingly optimistic people that tries to see the good in things. Even change, and yes, sometimes it does svck. So, you can either accept it, even enjoy it; or not, and be an unhappy, bitter person posting how much you hate stuff here on the forums.

Personally, I'm looking forward to the game even if it's completely different from Fallout 3 & New Vegas.

Also, like someone else said try Wasteland 2. Really fun game. There were a few moments in the game I felt like I was playing Fallout 2.

It would be choice and consequence if the spouse would comment on it, but wasn't shown so I can't say without playing it.

And C&C is usually short-hand for choice and consequence, and it doesn't help that it has the same initials as Command And Conquer.

Possibly.

If the multiple faction choice thing is true, then they may have learned from their mistakes.

I just don't want to be railroaded like in Fallout 3 or Skyrim. Oblivion did the illusion of choice very well IMO but Skyrim didn't keep the illusion for very long.

The Spyro forums had many of its veteran fans give up and leave the site, but they're still active on YouTube. Probably, it would happen with the Fallout forums as well.

I play legacy characters in TES and more recently Fallout as well. How their stories pan out actually reflect what I feel about the changes that each respective game makes. My TES character Lauren Sanders has different attitudes in each game.

Daggerfall - Best to stay over my parents' home.

Oblivion - This is a huge-ass diverse amazing province and I intend to visit the heck out of it.

Morrowind - This is an amazing mysterious and dark province, and so full of nooks and crannies. It's paradise.

Skyrim - Some of the time, I miss the good old days and I admit that I do spend a lot of time thinking about it, but the friends I made here and the good times I had here will be remembered when I will eventually move on.

My legacy Fallout character would probably be the same. Moving forward but sometimes thinking about the good old days. Unlike them, I can always switch games.

Also, I appreciate the different feelings each TES and Fallout game give. They cater for every sort of mood.