That's like comparing guns with virtually all objects, with the reasoning that "all objects can also be used to kill people". It takes years to train and to plant a spy. And that needs to be done in advance, all the liberated Synths can still be activated, when the institute decides, that a certain Synths could be beneficial to their cause.

A Synths can be a sleeper agent without knowing. There is no organization in Fallout4 that could train and implant that many Synths.

Basically, it is the same reason why the Railroad so strongly supports memory-wiping the Synths: they don't support Synths as a species, but them as humans. Even their lack of support for gen1 and gen2 might be related to it: they only care about those who look and feel human. The only real pro-Synth in their organization is Glory and she seems to be there solely because there are no better allies than them.

So I finally got to the Institute last night...gave me a lot of food for thought.

I now find myself with a moral dilemma. I am disgusted with the idea of Third Generation Synthetics (They are manufacturing organics wholesale. Scientists talk philosophy while machinery constructs a skeleton from a parts bin and then stitches on flesh and organs) - not just for Humanity's sake but the Synth's sake as well (Humanity - what makes us Humanity - should never be seen so easily replicated). But at the same time, my visceral response to the whole process doesn't mean I condemn the Institute outright. The people I have met are by and large friendly and the Institute itself is a marvel of engineering.

I find myself in the position of wanting to stop the Institute - the kidnappings, the Third Generation - but not wanting to see them destroyed.

I have a sinking feeling the only way I'm going to be allowed to spare them is to join them.

To be fair, the Railroad is divided on issues of General 1 and 2 Synths rather than completely on, "3rd or bust." It's also notable we get into the racial politics of integrationist versus separtism with the fact Railroad members don't see Synth reproduction as an issue because they view them as human so it's not really a big deal whether they can't reproduce or not. Which is probably a bit deeper than Bethesda really wanted us looking into this.

You can spare the people but destroy the Institute.

You can spare the Institute but that requires you murder innocents elsewhere.

svcky situation.

1. The problem is, of course, the Institute doesn't let you make peace with the Railroad. There's a price for being Director of the Institute and that's murdering Glory, Doctor Carrington, Desdemonna, Deacon, and Tinker Tom. People who have spent their entire lives doing their best to save Synths at considerable cost to their family, friends, and children.

Deacon if you get your approval high enough talks about how the Institute finds members of the Railroad. They identify them during encounters, recover the memories from destroyed Synths, then track down their families and torture them until they reveal their location. This is, of course, the Courser and Slave-Hunting Division of the Institute which is one of the most evil branches of the Institute but you become Director by proving yourself capable of destroying the Railroad.

In the words of Magneto, peace was never an option.

2. The Railroad questline ends on a surprisingly optimistic note for the Synths of the Institute as you can evacuate the entirety of the Synths living in the Institute as you manage to arm them for an internal revolt. They seize all of the teleporters out of the Institute and proceed to evacuate the Institute before it gets blown to pieces. You can also sound the evacuation order for the rest of the Institute afterward if you want as well.
The Railraod questline basically has you encouraged to infiltrate the Institute because, "We've saved hundreds of Synths over the years. Now let's save them all."

3. I'm kind of surprised so many people don't understand why the 3rd generation Synths exist. The game repeats their purpose numerous times but I get the idea a lot of fans want it to be more than it. Why did they make 3rd generation Synths? To infiltrate the Commonwealth and replace people. 2nd generation Synths don't look human with their rubber skin. In order to successfully infiltrate the Commonwealth for long term periods, they need to be able to eat, drink, have six, and mimic human behavior of the people they're replacing.

That's why they exist. No big transhumanist plots or anything.

To build an infiltrator robot. The fact they also use them for cleaning garbage and as household servants in the Institute is because the technology shouldn't go to waste.

Indeed. Saving the people seems the best option, but after so many generations underground their immune systems have to be pretty well shot, meaning they're going to be hard pressed on the surface by simple disease.

But I've fully explored the Institute now, and between the SRB, the Warwick Operation, the FEV lab, and the Robotics facility where Third Gen Synths are assembled...I can't let the Institute stand as an organization. My initial character always follow my own personal moral compass, and I can't willingly get behind this organization. Change from the inside is all well and good, but they literally have no consideration for the people outside the Institute.

And after witnessing it, Third Gen Synths are fundamentally wrong. That's not backwashed on the ones already produced, understand - Third Gen Synths have every right to exist. Life once given should not be taken away. But the "assembly" of the third generation...it's rare a video game evokes that visceral a sense of moral repugnance and outrage in me.

Playing games with life...playing God. It's not right - not for Humanity's future, not for the Synths born from it. It's more then an aberration - it's abomination.

Yeah, it's kinda... bathetic though. I was expecting something a bit more dramatic/long term plan-ish. Wonder if they'll still be used as often if you side with the 'tute? They don't need to be snekky sneks so much now that all/most of the threats have been removed. At least not in the Commonwealth DUN DUN DUUUN.

EDIT:

It should be. You can't fix the past but if you can bury it you can make something better. Besides, 'they killed us before so now it's okay for us to kill all of them' is why war... war never changes.

To be fair, that's an even more messed up part of this. The Institute has been underground for maybe two or three generations. That's why they have radiation damaged bodies the same as other Wastelanders and the Enclave would have wiped them out too.

Eh, I'm not really overly repulsed by that sort of thing. Childbirth isn't exactly all that pleasant to look at to anyone who has actually seen it. But I do wonder how many Synths have a self-hating origin regarding it as well. Glory's reaction to being assembled isn't nostalgia but disgust and shame.

I really-really wish there was a diplomacy option in this game like the BoS and NCR.

What factions would do best to make treaties?

What factions could never make treaties?

How would you go about it?

Fair enough, but still two or three generations is still long enough for their immunities to have gone to crap. Especially since their forebearers sealed themselves in behind them.

It's not so much that aspect to it...it's the speed. They're cranking out Third Gens at the rate of one every sixty seconds, from skeleton to nutrient bath. The...efficiency and rapidity of the process is what inspired disgust and revulsion. I mean, you always knew life was cheap to the Institute, but the Third Gen assembly line makes you realize just how cheap.

That's not a mentality that ought to be encouraged. It's what makes the SRB so completely wasteful, and what can make the BioScience Director just casually authorize the complete elimination of a family - of children - once an experiment is complete.

There's also the skeletons. I've watched the assembly process for quite a bit now (If nothing else, it's tremendously well animated and hypnotic - fun aside. But the Synths start "breathing" after the electro-shock therapy. The whole body moves. A nice touch by the game animators), and as far as I can tell the Skeletons aren't composite materials...its actual bone.

Gives a whole new meaning to the term "recycling", doesn't it?

Great, now I'm debating joining the Institute.

GAAHHHHH!

So confusing!

Especially since I was determined to do the Railroad quest!

No choice allows us not to kill children!

Talking about the Institute on another forum and someone brought up a very good point.

The Institute is the Think Tank, as it would be if Mobius hadn't conducted his sabotage.

Actually, I'd say if they weren't BAT[censored] insane.

BTW, love how the Institute slants things.

"Those filthy Railroaders reprogrammed this guy into being a Raider!"

Then you can read his terminal.

Gabriel was reprogrammed to be a MINUTEMAN.

He just became a Raider because his men were starving.

That's not Gabriel, that's the guy hie supplanted - John Wire.

I know because I cleared that place BEFORE that quest, and Wire was there to fight. When Gabriel's crew takes over, it adds a new line prompt with Gabriel trying to figure out how to erase Wire's files and failing miserably.

Gabriel is an example of how the Railroad's intentions go bad. The Institute blames their slipshod brainwashing techniques, but it really is self-determination in action. They gave him a new face and memories...he's the one who chose to become a Raider.

The Institute can't even acknowledge that possibility, because it undermines their narrative that Synths are nothing more then machines. Glory is a convincing counter argument - though I was surprised to hear her insist that I remember Synths aren't Human.

I wonder if Glory is trying to establish Synths should be accepted on their own terms, rather than treated as something they're not.

It might be relevant if she supports Generation 2 and 1 rights.

Nick Valentine is certainly not a human but he's human in every way that matters.

I keep reading comments about why civilisation hasn't got back on its feet and I think there's one interesting note that tells you how backward things are; there has been 1 book written in 200 years.

I'd compare them to Umbrella Corporation from the Resident Evil series. Knowing all that we know now.

Unbridled scientific research, genetic experimentation, and technological development at the cost of human compassion. But damn cool regardless.

The Directorate Meeting reminded me strongly of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDnJ81pffUc from Extinction.

BoS: Warrior

Institute: Mage

Rail Road: Thief

Minutemen: JOAT

Two

Tales of a Junktown Jerky Vendor
Wasteland Survival Guide

Wonder why nobody talks about the Institute causing the explusion of ghouls in diamond city and the implication that they plan on killing them to remove all pre-war knowledge from existence.

I confess, that seems like a leftover from a previous draft.

Because that seems very very weird and dumb, even for the Institute.

I believe they put the mutants up their to keep the commonwealth divided and unstable as to prevent potential threats from arising.