I love the Fallout 3 games, the one in the D.C. ruins even more than NW because of the desperate world feeling. I played both to death and had a blast. Only a few things really svcked. One was that i knew all the quests inside out(if it would′ve been possible to erase just my game memory, i would′ve done so). The other thing was, when i once realized, that i′m alone in the ruins, that something would only happen when i am there. That like mechanical robots in an entertainment park after it′s closed, life in Fallout comes to a standstill once you leave that area. I couldn′t touch the games for a long time after that. Also, while i absolutely love the new world construction system, the way it′s

implemented is a little un-immersive. Here are my ideas:

Difficulty options:

Real time construction. The animation like in the video would be planning only, actual construction takes time (time passes by, like in that Fallout mod). The farther you are away from friendly territory, the higher are the chances for a hostile interruption.

Essential need option. Your character eats and drinks automatically, if you have food and water etc in your inventory. You would still have to order your character to sleep manually, lol.

Failing to properly provide for your needs would result in stat reductions etc.

Territories. Factions would have their own territories, in wich they spawn patrols for additional defense and raiding parties to attack neighbouring hostile territories. The player could reduce hostile faction territories by constructing new outpost/settlements and/or build over existing ones. Newly constructed or conquered outposts/settlements would be the target of counter attacks for a given amount of time. The more territory a faction looses, the stronger and more frequent become its activities(patrols, raiding parties, counter attacks).

Separate difficulty slider for factiion activities.

Faction activities happen all the time and everywhere, aslong as you are running the game.

You know what I want? New Vegas tried this, but.... failed. And Skyrim lacks it completely, making the world seem...a little linear. I hate the fact that you couldn't disguise as bandits in Skyrim. What if my character was a bandit? The same goes for Fallout. It would make the world more immersive if wearing clothing meant different responses and attitudes towards you from others.

That "mechanical robots in an entertainment park after closing" feeling is every single player game. I don't understand why that would bother you.

but bandits dont wear a uniform most of them have fur clothing and you can wear that in game. Then also theres just because you have a uniform or similar clothing of a faction doesnt mean they'll just except you and let you walk around the area. Bandits in skyrim hunt/raid together they will know each other and will ask who the hell is that guy/girl in our uniform in the corner? They'll either ask you who you are directly or most likely they will ask the boss about you and then the jig is up. Now if we are talking about armor or clothing that covers you up completely head to toe then that will make more sense.

That would be the case in NV too. In fact, guards from hostile factions will still attack you if you're disguised.

This requires a massive amount of computer power. I doubt the generation of consoles after this one could crunch that much data. I doubt even a top-of-the-line PC could handle it. It's beyond our technological capacities right now.

That said, there is a tiny bit of this in Bethesda's games. There were a few selected NPCs in Oblivion who traveled from city to city no matter where we were. And I think Fallout 3's caravans also maintained their travel schedules as long as the game was running.

But everybody? No, that's not possible now. Maybe in ten or twenty years...

Im not sure on the actual numbers of it but there was options in the Oblivion Construction Set to have high level processing going on for any NPC. Meaning that it would track everything while you werent there. I have no idea how often it was used though, but during the hype train in 2005 it was a large part of the radiant AI thing in the marketing. I think that kind of flag is what was also used for the Fallout 3 caravans, since I know that they would run through the world no matter what you were doing. What happened though was that while they were simulated the monsters around them werent, so you could spawn monsters next to them if you were in cell range and their single caravan guard isnt going to do that much.

I think a lot of the goals for what is being said in the OP is what Bethesda was trying to do with Radiant AI back in the day. There wasnt enough computing power then to simulate a entire world, I am unsure if we have it now. Although im still not used to Oblivion being 10 years old at all...

People made mods for skyrim with real time patrols, so I wouldn't say it's impossible just has to be kept to a reasonable level.

There was also a mod that applied the caravan AI to a set of BoS patrols going through DC in Fallout 3. More stuff like that would be awesome, although I have no idea how much the engine/consoles can actually take.

consoles probably can't, but a good enough pc should be able to. I've been able to get away with a lot while keeping good stability. It'll probably end up being something for the modders to do again due to this fact.

And how much of it would be meaningful? Lets say you dedicate 10 theoretical years of the earths entire computing power to a faction dispute on the other side of the map. An epic ensues that would take 10 Homers to write, and would make the entire collected works of Western literature look like they were written in crayon.

... and it ends in a draw...

... before the player ever reaches the destination.

I love open world games, but unlike reality, the rest of the world outside my reach needn't go about its business without me.

Depending on how its coded, faction activities need not take up too much computer brainspace. You could not render all those people moving about in real time, but you could have an algorithm that decides how many people per faction and assigns a random number conflict resolution. Egosoft does this for the X3 games. I just don't see why it would be that important for Fallout 4.

What I do absolutely love is the idea of buildings being constructed in real time. You essentially start off with a Mr. Handy. It could take him x days to build a structure. You get some settlers in and the rate of construction goes up. You can allocate those settlers to different roles and that rate of construction depends on how many are actually building versus standing guard, gathering resources, etc.

All of that is moot though. If it is not in the game already, it isn't going in now. The absolute best we can hope for is that somebody will be able to mod that. The biggest strain that I see is the credibility of not having a structure in place for several days and then *bing* there it is. Any mod that did not also add in gradual building construction animations would effectively be no better than real time construction. I am willing to bet that the idea of gradual construction was discussed and ultimately discarded as too much effort for the payoff. Minecraft was listed as an inspiration and everything was built in real time. I am betting that promise of instant gratification won over verisimilitude easily.

Skyrims Khajiit caravans was moving around, they are involved in a quest and you can see the marker move.

Not sure about our favorite lying Khaiiit, does he spawn randomly or is he moving?

Know its an named bard or two who operate the same way also some of the undaunted.

This is calculated in the background, now its no need to keep track of everything, someone who moved around in a city does only need to move around if you are in the city or close.

then you get close they get put in an relevant place according to their schedule.

I think he was spawned, I only saw him in fixed point spawn nodes.

Of all the things I want, Fallout being a simulation is not on the list.

Because it kills the immersion if nothing happens without the player. Fallout games are my favorites rpg′s because they are much more immersive than everything else on the market. I can enjoy playing a gangster, a mage or a dragon hunting hero, but i cant take that role serious. I enjoy the game mechanics, but the story doesn′t touch me. Fallout otoh provokes emotions and thinking with me, anger and sadness, hope and joy. Because while it is not real atm, it could be in a second. Thats why it bothers me even more when the entertainmentpark mechanics are too obvious. As many other in this thread have written, it would not have to be too resource intensive, and if Bethesda has implemented the right basics or will do so by way of patches and dlc′s, modder can do fantastic things (like they have proven many times ).

I doubt caravans and people you save would survive the trek. Have you ever followed someone you saved in a quest that runs off in a random direction? They eventually die from the first thing they encounter. Whereas if you dont' follow them they don't have an encounter and live... Freaking couriers do nothing but bring problems for people!

That's pretty much the way all games work. I'm sure they have already thought of having some sort of dice roll simulation for hostile areas when you aren't around. If they haven't already implemented it into the game there are probably constraints keeping them from doing it.

You know, on the subject of world simulation and patrols, I'd love to see the BoS in Fo4 actually float their vertibirds/airship around the map. Kind of like the http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/images/wotlk/zones/icecrown_65.jpg from WoW in the Icecrown region of Northrend. They made the world feel a lot more "dynamic." Maybe dynamic isn't the right word, but you get what I mean.

FAllout is an RPG, NOT a simulation, and no one REALLY wants it to be a simulation. Skyrim mods tried "realism", and failed HARD. If you want to play a sim game, PLAY A SIM GAME, NOT AN RPG!

Its a nice thing to see AI having a life outside of you, especially when they are associated with you in some way. I love it when I have player home mods that come with guards, and I can just have them patrol in circles forever. It's a weird thing to like in games I know, but its very satisfying to be in control of a little ecosystem of NPCs. X3 Terran Conflict has creating that ecosystem as like 50% of the actual gameplay, probably even more. Part of why I like that game so much even if it's full of malice to everyone who plays it.

I'm sure that the simulation aspects from previous BGS games will be improved upon or increased for Fallout 4. They've already talked about expanding the radiant quests. My guess is that it will be similar to GTA5 and Red Dead only expanded or improved upon.

Both can co-exist.

Cant beat Stalkers A-Life, i just wish more games would use it or at least try to do it