It probably will be m, the last game I remember getting an advlt only was GTA for that hot coffee mod. then it got pulled from stores ever where.

I expect it to be rated M, but not really deserve it. I expect awkwardly gratuitous language, and comedic violence; [whether deliberate or not].
If that's enough to qualify as mature... that's really messed up IMO.

*Diablo was rated M.

Don't think it will be any less bloody than Fallout 3, no reason for them to tone it down.

It probably be better gore because of better hardware and engine.

Yeah, I dunno, the footage we've seen so far with heads and limbs being blown off don't exactly look amazing. The blood looks very Skyrim. But I wasn't talking about the graphics so much as the content.

Yes, I know, I was just being quick. Sorry. I could have said "looks like lots of six-themed games with lots & lots of ever-present nudity"/etc. But that was more words.

edit: and yeah, I should have been more accurate anyway. I know how annoyed I get when I see some idiot saying "what are these porm games doing on Steam," about some game that just has women in sixy clothes, not even any nudity. /eyeroll

It's going to be rated M for sure, but I'm fine with that. I don't see the point of AO. You can get away with a lot under Mature. Compared to other games, Fallout 3 and New Vegas weren't all that gory, most of it was just comical. I think Fallout 1 and 2 would have earned the title more appropriately considering some of the messed up things you could do in those games: enslave people, kill children, completely mutilate people, not like in Fallout 3 where the most you see is a head explosion, more like blowing someone in half to see their rib cage and guts hanging out. Ohhh good times...

It's going to be 'M', just like all their big-title games were rated 'M'. It's likely that during the process of copying the game to the various disks, they'll submit it to ESRB who will look at it and give it the 'M' we all know it's getting. It's kind of standard procedure, I guess.

Strangely a lot of games are advlts only in these parts of the world. Meaning they have PEGI 18 rating which really is advlts only. And it's not a big deal anywhere.

Fallout 4 will be advlts only here so what is the issue? Why is ESRB A such a big deal?

AO, advlts Only, is seen by consumers & retailers in the US as similar to the NC-17 and X ratings - i.e, bad. Major chain retailers won't stock AO games on their shelves for instance. Sony & MS won't approve AO games for their consoles. Etc, etc, etc.

(ironically, the NC-17 rating was invented so that filmmakers could put out honestly-mature films without the stigma of the X rating..... and it was promptly stigmatized and reduced to uselessness. I remember thinking how silly it was that the Blockbuster rental chain was all like "Oh, we won't stock those dirty NC-17 films! We're family friendly!" while still having a "Hot Action" rack full of those z-grade R nudity/exploitation 'lisbian Prison Babes In Heat'-type films. Of course, this was back in the days of VHS tapes.... nowadays, people can just release their Unrated! things on disc, or digitally. Still stops big-budget/mainstream studios, though.)

I'd rather Fallout not tread into the "super edgy darkboys 2kforever simulator" territory. That's the kind of lame stuff that middle school kids think is the coolest thing ever, when really it's just unnecessary garbage that's dark for the shock factor.

Because of the republican housewife brigade in the US.

Hah, yeah I'm kind of with you.

Reminds me of when Nerfnow did a diagram of why Rust was so popular.

"This is Jimmy. He is 8. He likes Minecraft and building houses and digging for diamonds....Now Jimmy is 13, has acne, and irrational teenage feelings and frustrations. He wants an edgier Minecraft with guns and being able to bash a mans head in with a rock."

...then there's Ark, which is Rust with dinosaurs. Clearly games today are trying to appeal to the 6 year old in me, it's working.

But yes I understand when things are dark but overdoing it just makes the overall product feel like a joke.

Darkness-Induced Audience Apathy. If the setting is too grimdark, if the conflict is pointless, if it's hopeless for the good guys, or there aren't even any faction that can be considered "good" in any way (and none of the "evil" factions aren't awesome evil but just horrible evil), then the audience probably won't care. And an audience that doesn't care is one that does not consume the media.

Dark themes has it's place, but you can overdo to. You don't want to over saturate your players with a certain feel or it'll stop having the effect you desire.

Sure, have a location where something really [censored] up happens, that will make that location/mission/area memorable. But you don't need to find a 16 year olds grimdark fanfiction under every rock you come across, or you just start to not care as a player.

Doesn't it make sense for them to release the ESRB / PEGI info when the PC specs are released?

I don't recall ANY game that garnered an AO rating on purpose (sans porm studio "games"). It would be utter financial suicide.

Just how many sets of laws does Finland have governing advlt rated content?

People have a tendency to view the United States as one homogenous mass. This may be true in some cases, but in others it isn't. Laws regulating the ownership, sale and distribution of advlt rated materials is one of the cases where the United States is not united.

The reason I ask, is in the US (where Bethesda does most of its business), every time you cross a political boundary there is a very good chance the laws governing ESRB, MPAA, etc. ratings will change. There are places where there are no laws governing ESRB rated content. In other places an advlt rated (and in rare occasions, even mature rated) game is simply banned. Other places where ownership is legal but distribution is criminal. In theory you could have a situation when you could break the law by loaning your friend across the street an advlt rated game, but if he loaned you one no law would be broken (assuming a political boundary runs down the middle of the street on which you live). In some places we have laws governing rated material that are not enforced where other places they are vigorously enforced.

The point is that here in the United States the various industry rating organizations do not make laws, they simply issue recommendations. This in and of itself is not censorship since none of these organizations have the legal ability to enforce these recommendations. The censorship occurs when the various local, state and federal governments take these recommendations and apply laws to them. Self censorship occurs when an individual looks at a rating and makes a determination as to whether to buy on not based on that rating.

The problem here in the US is the total weirdness that the different sets of laws impose on any entertainment medium. And the higher up the rating system you go, the weirder things get. With games you have:

EC - No restrictive laws anywhere but an extremely limited market.

E - Almost no restrictions but still a very limited market.

E 10+ - Pretty much an E but with fart jokes, recommended for 10 years and up.

T - Basically this is a continuation fart joke territory with obscure references to "forbidden fruit", nobody really cares (very few people want to restrict these games but the the market is still limited).

M - Forbidden fruit is displayed out in the open, not heavily regulated in most places but there are a few places where it is unavailable.

AO - Lots and lots of forbidden fruit. Restrictions change every ten paces. You might as well be selling a T or E 10+ game when you consider how large your market would be.

The reason that the M rating is such a big deal here in the US is because that is where the sweet spot is. It is where the largest market is that doesn't have overly burdensome restrictions. If there were no restrictions AO would probably be the sweet spot but with all the conflicting laws it is just more trouble than it is worth.

Yes. But the US rating is going to be M. Because just what we've seen already is beyond T, and (as has been mentioned) AO just isn't a business-viable possibility. (And that's even ignoring the part where Beth would never do the kinds of things it would take to get an AO rating. That's not the company they are.)

E/E10 does not mean that it's by nature unpalatably insipidly kiddy for advlts. I really dislike that presumption.

Yeah, there've been plenty of good E games. Just looking at my shelf, I've got several SSX games (all E), Lego Star Wars & Marvel Superheroes (E10), a couple Katamari Damacy games, Hot Shots Golf, Ratchet & Clank series (E10)......

Hmm, that T comment is also kinda odd. Knights of the Old Republic 1 & 2 were both T. Most of the JRPGs on my shelf are also T. WoW, LotRO, City of Heroes, and SWTOR, as well.

Games that get the 'A' rating only get it because that's what the developers were going for.
Carmaggedon, Race and Chase (Which later became the GTA franchise) were actually aiming for A-only so that press would hype them up more than they already have but the content wasn't enough.
Hatred is one that succeeded but even that game's content is M considering MK X, The Punisher, Manhunt were rated M.

Fallout just isn't that kind of game. It doesn't NEED to be A-only for press to hype it up. It already has its audience.

Might I ask WHY you're hoping for it to be A-only? I mean you seem like a reasonable guy, being able to deliver arguments without any hostility.

Only guys I can imagine who would want the A only rating are ones that never leave their rooms, have 3 screen of gore and porm movies playing at the same time, foaming at the mouth waiting for the next Hentai Hardgore games thinking "Yea g0re iz cool muthaF..cka!!"

That is point. This has nothing to do with reality, it is all about perception. You will find people out there that self-censor themselves based on a rating that is "too low" and miss out on some great entertainment. They see the 10 or 13 years old on the rating and stop reading before they get to the "and up".