OK - the Fallout 4 Mods topic does not cover this.

We know the Creation Kit will not be available this year, but that does not say we can not start getting ready.

Start with general questions:

1) What game engine will Fallout 4 use?

2) Is it script compatible with either Fallout NV or Skyrim?

3) Will there be any conversion tools available to help migrate from either Fallout NV or Skyrim?

4) Will our normal modding tools like Blender and 3DS Max work with the textures and meshes in Fallout 4?

5) Will Fallout NV Textures and Meshes be directly useable in Fallout 4? What will we have to change?

6) What is the best direction for user added animations in Fallout 4? Zaz or FNIS?

7) Are Scripts internalized, AKA Fallout NV, or externalized, AKA Skyrim. If the latter, we need a Save Game Cleaner.

Now specifics:

1) What will Mod Organizer need to start developing for Fallout 4?

2) What editor base do we use - TES5Edit or FNVEdit? And how soon can work start on it?

3) I think Wrye Flash / Bash has been supplanted by Mod Organizar. Anyone still see a need for it?

4) We definately will need a robust script extender. Based off Skyrim or Fallout NV?

5) Power Up tools for the Creation Kit (GECK, etc).

6) Any other tools we need to make successful mods?

7) General: Encourage Bethesda to release a robust Creation Kit. The ones for both Fallout NV and Skyrim are pretty fragile.

Note: This is not the topic for "What is the point in mods". Go post in Fallout 4 Mods.

Posting in this topic should mean you know what the point is.

If there is anything I can do to help in any of these areas, let me know. Being retired has it's advantages.

Lets hit the ground running on November 10!

Speaking as a veteran modder of several BGS games...

General:

1: IIRC, it is the "Creation Engine" again, updated with new bells and whistles (again).

2: Probably not. Though FO3 had a similar script setup with Oblivion, there were several fundamental differences and expansions on functionality. Though I imagine they'll use Papyrus format again, I doubt that Skyrim and FO4 scripts will be reusable. Furthermore, I remember seeing a purported leaked screenshot of the FO4 GECK, and saw that scripts may be internal once again (which would DEFINITELY be appreciated, loose scripts were a bane for Skyrim modders)

3: Again, fundamentally different setups. Furthermore, transferring models and textures and whatnot is expressly forbidden. Assets made for one BGS game must stay with that BGS game, and cannot be transferred.

4: I don't know. Seeing that it's still the Creation Engine, I imagine the textures are DXT or ARGB8 format DirectDraw Surface (*.DDS) textures again. If NetImmerse Format models are used, they'll probably be a more advanced format over Skyrim (as Skyrim's was over previous BGS games that used the NIF models). And BGS has not released NIF tools of any kind since Morrowind, it's all been modder-made stuff by the NifTools project.

5: Read #3. Short answer: Nope. Unless they're fully made from scratch by modders, it cannot be ported. I surmise I could port my http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/49795/? (with some heavy adaptation and once the mod importers/exporters/NIFSkope catch up), but not my http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/43132/?.

6: It'll probably be a Havok Behavior setup again. Unless there are changes, someone will need to make a FNIS-like setup again.

7: Read #2. Odds are that we may still need a savegame cleaner somehow. I am reeeeeaaaally hoping that screenshot was for real and the scripts and source are internal to the modules again.

Specifics:

1: I don't use Mod Organizer, because I think the way it works is a bad idea that disrupts the way that Skyrim was designed to load the modules and assets.

2: xEdit will take time to adapt for FO4. We'll have to suffice without it for a while. Perservere, I know it will be tough.

3: Heck no! Wrye Bash is certainly not supplanted.

4: NIFSkope. Always NIFSkope.

5: Doubtful. If you knew just in detail how much of a house of cards that the Skyrim game engine is, you'd cringe. The USKP team does it all the time. But we do what we do anyway.

Well it was clear to me anyway...

Any transfer of assets between games referred to only user-created assets. Anything else would require a TTW-like arrangement, where both games were loaded.

Mod Organizer hooked me because of the number of incompatible mods I work with. It is really nice to have a profile specific to a mod, which loads only the assets required for that mod.

NifScope! I forgot NifScope... Definitely required.

I find it is always best not to touch mods until well after the mod tools are available and the pace of updates from Bethesda slow or when they are done. I find that this gives me a good idea on what I am looking for in a mod if any are needed.

There will be mods out shortly after the game is out and who knows maybe even before since it is likely quite a few people are preparing to make mods right now.

Sans all those "question" that nobody will likely know for sure until they release the "GECK" for FO4, I only have one rather wide ranging concern. Mod installation (or potential built in limitations). My concern is that since they are going all out for console mods (at least Xbox ONE right now), would it not be in their best interest to consolidate the manner mods are distributed AND INSTALLED on all platforms? There is no doubt that if the current method to install a mod is possible on the console versions, then there is NO WAY Bethesda could ever provide a guarantee to Microsoft that "advlt" or other unapproved mods could NEVER be installed on an Xbox One. I am just concerned as to the lengths Bethesda would go to appease MS in terms of mod control and if these methods would possibly applied to the PC version as well.

I guess what I mean is assuming mods for FO4 will still be installed by the simple ESM / ESP file method we are all familar with may be a bit naive (and then again I could just be paranoid).

I have the same concern due to bethesda.net and that might be the only way to install a mod.

I'm figuring that xbox will work like the steam workshop. Modders can decide if they want to upload to that or not, it goes up for approve and then can be downloaded to an xbox. This would allow microsoft to enforce the mods and modders to do what they want. I doubt beth is going to do anything to piss off the modders as they are the ones who are going to be doing the work.

You are being paranoid. First, there will always be mods that the consoles won't be able to use, whether because they contain questionable content or use utilities like script extenders. Bethesda probably won't want 'advlt' mods on Bethesda.net even for the PC.

Second, after the paid mod backlash the last thing they will do is try to limit the free exchange of mods. They may very well reintroduce a means for modders to attempt to monetize their creations, but they won't try to control the exchange or installation of mods on the PC.

Third, even if they did try to tie all mods to Bethesda.net or something, I'm sure creators of mod utilities would quickly create tools that divorced plugins from any such requirements to allow them to be exchanged elsewhere.

Might be a different story if they had something in the EULA but.

I hadn't cosidered what lengths they may have gone to.........food for thought.

I always have the feeling that Havok was hastily rammed into creation engine and I'm hoping it's better intergrated this time.

Nah. They're not going to cut off the Nexus like that. The fans would turn the debacle into front page news on every gaming site for a year.

I'm guessing bethesda.net is for console owners and PC users who just feel like using it.

For models, keep in mind that the Creation Engine supports physical-based rendering now. From what I gather reading up on it, that means that models have new/different properties for defining how they interact with the game's lighting.

On Wrye Bash: isn't that program about to be deprecated by Mator Smash for Skyrim? It definitely works better than the bashed patch for me, and Mator says it shouldn't be too hard to make it work for 3 and New Vegas, too, so it's fairly malleable. I'm not a fan of Mod Organizer, too, for the same reasons as MadCat.

And on animations, didn't Havok put out a much more robust Havok Animation Suite after Skyrim got released? Skyrim only uses Havok Behaviors from what I know, but it wouldn't be surprising to see F4 use the full updated suite.

I'm not sure they could even really do that. Anyone can just go into the file directory on PC to package copies of the mod files with their appropriate folder structures and literally release them anywhere over the internet. Unless of course they swing the banhammer at you for circumventing Bethesda.net for mod distribution, but banning people for not wanting to distribute mods through Bethesda.net isn't exactly something that would go over too well. They need to be repairing their relations with the modding community, and limiting where mods can be uploaded and the types of mods that can be made will only make things worse.

How can you then create an mod?

Try to think, most mods are personal config mods, say make an favorite armor better.

Rest assured the community will have a grip on it.

I will be working on some interiors and whatnot in-between homework and life.

They made it clear in a blog post after the paid mods fiasco that they had/have no intention of shutting down third-party sites like the Nexus.

As for console mods outside of Bethnet, how liable would Microsoft, Sony, or Bethesda even be for them? Couldn't they put out a disclaimer that they do not support or endorse mods on consoles from other sites, and are not liable for any damage those mods might do?

I am sure that Bethesda will state that they are not liable for ANY mods from anywhere, just as they always have. They will only accept issues with their officially released software, both the main game and any DLCs they might offer later. They're willing to offer the tools, but any issues that arise are solely on the user, not Bethesda.

Oh, and just to note... Wrye is still the best tool for BGS games, bar none. It does far more than anything else because it has been developed over many years. It will take any other tool a similar amount of time to match it.

As for save games... anyone using mods should know to save their game before installing a mod, or saving the current game with current mods before adding any others. That is the exact process that BGS is adopting, too, although Todd made it sound like they are introducing an automatic system to do it. Wrye has had different profiles since Oblivion and can automatically load the mods associated with a specific savegame. Not sure why anyone would want to use anything else, let alone need to use something else.

let me elaborate on something mentioned by mad cat.... Skyrim was a house of cards soaked in kerosene supporting a lit candle while said deck is sitting on a pile of COPPER fulminate that is sitting on flash paper that il literal all that is between said fulminate and a barrel of unstable nitro. Trying to make a TTW setup for that with 3/NV would be like pulling a pin on a live grenade and tossing it at the cards.

I agree with this. I think that whatever Bethesda.net does in this regard will probably be an addition to, rather than a replacement of, traditional mod distribution.

Maybe they'll have a mod download system that is more like Nexus or other sites, and isn't curtailed like the way Steam Workshop is. Only recently has the arbitrary download cap been removed, but SW still has a limit of one BSA and one module, no loose files, no FOMOD/BAIN-like setup, and new versions are forced. No means to note requisite mods or utilities (aside from listing in the description). IIRC, ESMs and ESMified ESPs are allowed now...

And maybe they'll have a moderation staff that doesn't require heavy extractive dental work done to get any moderation action on offending files.

It's easy to just write off my concerns (I'd love to as well), but as I stated, either Bethesda is going to put some limitations on how console mods get installed / run or there will be NO WAY they can assure M$ that a Strip Club mod will never run on an Xbox One console.... If they do it for consoles, it makes it simpler for it to be on all platforms.