i think people just like numbers, the more numbers the better for them. The attributes literally didn't do anything (in oblivion) that the health/magic/staminia thing of skyrim didn't. Morrowind was a little different but it just encouraged you to spam (or train) skills to max out the few key attributes so your character wouldn't svck

Even now you can see it with fallout 4's changes. It looks like the perks will do everything and more that skills did, but because it doesn't have a 100 numbers in it is "dumbing down"

Were the way TES handled attributes all that great? They really didn't impose any restrictions on your character, like other RPGs. I would have preferred them to revamp to be more meaningful but I'm not sorry that they were implemented in Skyrim the same way previous games handled them.

No.

RPGs are entirely about roleplaying as your own character (or roleplaying as the main character in your own way). Meaning, the only limitations on your character are the ones YOU choose, or make... The game has no need to make the choices for you. If you need a game to make the choices for you, then you have no idea, or little knowledge, of how to roleplay and instead need the game to hold your hand, telling you that "No, you're not suppose to do this! You're a wizard, not a knight!"...

Exactly. Heck, in my own little TES video I recently made. I explained how bad the attributes were in TES and how bad skills are in Fallout 3/NV... (Which is why I am happy about the removal of skills for Fallout 4 and was happy about Skyrim's removal of attributes, so to say).

More accurately: It doesn't offer the established Fallout experience. [For brevity sake, yes this can change; but change as in built upon; not scrapped for something else entirely.]

It doesn't matter what I like personally; in theory I could hate TB games and Isometric games; or even RPGs...
and that would not change that http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/Gizmojunk/Gizmojunk001/wnd_04b2f7a395b40f990ce49f04b522325b_zpsroqnnzpw.jpg.

I don't know if I agree about Attributes being removed from Skyrim since it lead to all the characters being the same at the beginning. I agree about how it was handled in Oblivion that was a mess. At least with Fallout 4 that won't be a thing and I'm very happy about that. All the characters we will create will be different due to Special, very glad that Beth kept Special. If they would've gotten rid of Special then Fallout isn't Fallout anymore.

I understand, but there are still RPG mechanics in the game. Skills are in, but in the form of perks which amplify a character in anyway one chooses. SPECIAL stats are also in which helps to shape a well-defined character. I think it is a bit of an overreaction to state that all RPG mechanics are being destroyed.

Yep, I completely understand. Around 35 years ago I was fanatical about music. When MTV came along it changed the very face of the music industry and It was incomprehensible to me. I'm sure some of the other old farts around here can relate to exactly what I'm talking about lol

Truer words have never been spoken! I haven't bought a CD since 1998, lol.

Oh, man.. Don't even get me started on the change from vinyl to CD's lol

Oblivion is a mess in general honestly...

I might be young but I do like having CDs if I really like the artist and their music... So I might not stop buying CDs, even if going digital is a nicer idea.

Also, this off-topic-ness.

Just like how old school RPGs are making a small comeback, so are vinyls. Have you seen how many Barnes & Noble carries? My sister even picked me up a vinyl Master of Puppets album.

You're right. Sorry about the off-topic post!

Soooo... perks. Cool, eh?

I didn't mean the switch from CDs to online/digital, I mean no solid record has been released since then that I would consider buying. Gone are the days where you put an album on and listened to the whole thing.

So yeah...perks.

My point still stands. You are not fond of the idea that Fallout 4 is different from the rest of the series and that is fine. Change can come in the form of either building upon something or scrapping it. Maybe the game's direction does not please some veterans, but it does please others as well as people who are new to the series. The best thing to do in this case is to either continue supporting the franchise or finding some other game to play.

Video games are still a business and maybe Bethesda saw the changes as necessary to continue staying influential in the industry.

Because it is boring otherwise.

Playing a game where the PC has no limits.

Start new game?

Yes

You win!

Would you like to play again?

No

That's a game with nothing at all. A game with no limits just means you have the choice to do whatever you want with a character. Meaning, you limit yourself if you choose to do so.

I agree, having the choice to be as powerful as you can is a lot better then being forced to be powerful because you just are. That's basically my big problem with the skill system in Fallout 3, less in New Vegas due to logans Loophole.

Well, that's a game design flaw, isn't it? You should want to be as powerful as you can possibly be because otherwise you won't make it, the game will kill you. You should be pushed to the max, constantly looking for ways to improve so you won't die. It's that feel of being overpowered that kills games for me. If I have to throttle my character in order to not destroy the game, something's wrong.

Borderlands.

Meeting the threshold to equip the weapon is the skill (level) check. What you do from there with it is on you

Which is the weirdest concept ever. Anyone can use any weapon, it's just a question of how well.

But you've missed my own [point]. Scrapping for something else is not evolution, it's substitution. It was disingenuous of them to exploit the Fallout franchise name and reputation to sell a TES clone; in much the same was as making an "Ironman 4" starring Robert Downey jr. ~playing a triathlete on a mission to win the Ironman race would be.

[Bit of a non-sequitur]
The guy in the article [video] casually mentions "all Fallout games", with seemingly no concept that there was ever a Fallout or Fallout 2, and actually describes a [implied crazy] hypothetical ~that actually describes Fallout. .

It also means there is no point or appreciation of any of it... it's like if everything you could ever eat was all shaped out of marzipan; you could have a veritable banquet table... and get sick on it rather quick.

[Getting a game without restrictions ~is getting the http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/jj125/Gizmojunk/Gizmojunk001/lollipop_zpsrd5fzv5j.jpg; it's better to want it, than to actually have it.]

*Something that was core to the franchise (once), was that of a trade off. You started with an average PC, and could improve them in one area at the cost of ability in another. With skills you could do the same; proficiency in one for lesser proficiency in the others. This made a PC that was good at certain tasks; and the game would adapt to the PC. But now, Bethesda has ejected the core, and their game is centered on below average PCs (to start), that improve above minimum; and with the goal to maximize everything; and offer everything... This sounds great to some, but it plays out like the twilight zone.

Your feelings are what I have already acknowledged. I am not debating on whether the change is an evolution or a substitution. It is a change regardless of whatever term you want to synonymize it with. As I have stated, you may not like the direction the game is taking, but others do and are willing to give it a chance. There are pros and cons to every type of change. It is possible that the positives could outweigh the negatives. And if they do, is it really such a bad thing if the series takes a different path from where it started?

Also, it really should not be a surprise that Fallout has become similar to The Elder Scrolls when you consider that it is pretty much Bethesda's baby.

Of course it is.

Yes it was; it still is ~though I'm used to it. I had very high hopes when I bought Oblivion and saw how their engine would easily apply to a Fallout game.
(I thought this was them ~Bethesda's, when I first saw it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewN2qBXQKXY )
*Instant jump in spirits too.

I had nothing but compliments when I saw the first release of the intro.
And I experienced the heart felt kick to the teeth when I saw the first gameplay clips.

*That's no longer a complaint BTW. I've accepted Fallout getting its amputations, but it really does seem that they are clipping off some more bits from everywhere, and making the PC into an optional afterthought that serves only the role of the PC in a shooter... Like NOLF 2. This makes one assume that FO5 will essentially be a variant Quake 5 with RPG elements.

**And the gamescom video tends to imply this as likely ~IMO.

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