The Dominion of Canada

Post » Fri May 27, 2011 12:14 am

Here's a thought on the whole subject of Canada as it relates to the Fallout Universe.

As Fallout itself, is known for its "World of the Future" imagery...as seen through the eyes of 50's America it would be correct to assume that Canada would have taken a similar path in both political and social aspects as well.

First off I would think that Canada, would still be formally known as "The Dominion of Canada" as it would have kept more with its traditional nature, and values, which would furthermore mean that they would still be flying the "Red Ensign" and not the Maple Leaf, as it would be conceivable that the flag debate would not have taken place. With that being said, you also would not have a "Canadian Forces" as you still would have had a more Loyalist Canada, and therefore we would also see the continuity of both the Royal Canadian Navy, the Canadian Army, and the Royal Canadian Air Force. Now with this line of thought in mind, we'd still be thinking of a unilingual Canada, and also therefore you would not see forced metrication, or funny little coins (yes for those who can remember, there were once dollar bills in Canada). Though as to not go into detail, at this time, there are many more things that would no doubt be different in the Fallout timeline Canada, but one thing that should be kept in mind when thinking about a Fallout Timeline Canada, is that it would be a highly conservative nation, which still would be holding strong to loyalist sentiment and Anglo-Saxon traditions.
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x a million...
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 5:48 am

except in the fallout lore canada was annexed by the united states...and fell i believe
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Horse gal smithe
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 7:08 am

So as not to add any confusion. I should note that the Canada to which I am referring would be that of a Pre-annexed Canada
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Bethany Watkin
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 10:53 am

By the way, it's possible that the British Empire never dissolved in the Fallout universe and that other countries also kept their colonies that gained independence after WW2 in our world.
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Wayne W
 
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Post » Thu May 26, 2011 10:27 pm

With that being said, you also would not have a “Canadian Forces” as you still would have had a more Loyalist Canada, and therefore we would also see the continuity of both the Royal Canadian Navy, the Canadian Army, and the Royal Canadian Air Force.


Then would'nt "Canadian Loyalist Force's" be considered "Rebels", against the new annexed canada or something? Also were the canadians fighting in the Great War, since it was in Alaska?
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BEl J
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 6:30 am

Why would the US trust Canadians on the front line? That would be a bad idea, the country is in open insurgency against them... Canadian loyalist spies/sympathisers would get a free shot at US military Brass.

Loyalist in this case means loyal to the crown.... Whether they're rebels, terrorists, or freedom fighters depends on your point of view.
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Matthew Warren
 
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Post » Thu May 26, 2011 10:45 pm

Pre-Annexation Canada:
Royal Canadian Navy
Canadian Army
Royal Canadian Air Force

Those would be the 3 branches of the Armed Forces of the Dominion of Canada. It should be noted though, that the RCMP would also have played a role in Civil Defense.

http://mpmuseum.org/rcmp/rcmp1956.jpg


The Royal Canadian Navy Bases and Stations:
HMCS Dockyard (Esquimalt,B.C.)
HMCS Naden
HMCS Nanoose Bay
HMCS Comox
HMCS Patricia Bay
HMCS Royal Roads
HMCS Aldergrove
HMCS Naden
HMCS Stadaconna and HMC Dockyard
HMCS Shelburne
HMCS Protector
RCNAS Shearwater
HMCS Coverdale
HMCS Cornwallis
HMCS Newport Corner
HMCS Albro Lake
HMCS Mount Uniacke
*Note* (The Royal Canadian Navy would still have the Fleet Air Arm, as there would be no "Unification")

Royal Canadian Air Force:
The RCAF would have operated its stations all across the country as well as the Emergency Airfields. They would also have been responsible for operation of the DEW Line, the Mid-Canada Line and the Pinetree Line.

Note:
1) The RCAF would quite likely have maintained its stations in Europe.
2) The CIM-10 Bomarc would probably still be in operation in some form
3) RCAF Service Police, would have been responsible for Provost/Airfield Defense

The Canadian Army:
The Canadian Army would have retained its traditional Barracks, Camps and other bases across the country/Overseas. Also they would have no doubt continued more intensive research into chemical weapons at Suffield Experimental Station.
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Raymond J. Ramirez
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 1:49 am

It could be possible that Canadians might have been recruited into the US Army, USN, USAF, and USMC to help bolster numbers. It is more likely though, that if Canadians were recruited, that they would be placed in a role similar to the National Guard so as to avoid creating a situation where the DOD would be arming possible insurgents with frontline technology.
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Nicole Coucopoulos
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 2:53 am

It's important also to look at what kind of country Canada was during the 50s.

For most of the decade Canada was ruled by the Liberals under Louis St. Laurent, a French Canadian from the Eastern Townships. He was heavily internationalist; he was an important signee of NATO's creation and a staunch supporter of the creation of a United Nations Emergency Force (Peacekeepers). He worked with Lester B. Pearson to solve the Suez Canol Crisis and, some believe, helped avert a nuclear confrontation there (though Pearson would eventually get most of the credit). Economically he was very progressive. He established reforms which eventually led to the creation of universal healthcare, education, and social security. He helped continue Canada's enormous economic growth witnessed by most post-WW2 nations. Lastly, St Laurent also introduced the first amendment to the Canadian Constitution in decades, which, among other things, drove to form a more independant Canada and sever some ties with the UK. He also transformed judicial law in Canada, making the Supreme Court of Canada the highest judicial body in the country, whereas before courts in the UK had prominence.

Ironically, St Laurent's Liberals were defeated in 1957 by a majority Progressive Conservative government who attained 112 seats (42% of the House) to the Liberals 104 seats (39%). Despite the PC's win in the House, the Liberals actually attained more of the popular vote (41% for the Liberals and 39% for the PC). St Laurent thought about forming a new government despite the electoral loss by forming an alliance with another party (just like what's going on today!). In the end St Laurent decided not to, believing that Canada had firmly decided his party wasn't wanted anymore, atleast not as leaders.

St Laurent was replaced by John Diefenbaker. True to his Conservative leanings he issued a snap election just one year later to try and grab a majority in the House. Surprisingly, he got it -- and more; the 1958 election proved to beat St Laurent's record for the largest majority government in Canadian history (until Mulroney in the 80s). Diefenbaker is infamous for cancelling the Avro Arrow project, which was a development of an immensely advanced supersonic interceptor designed in and for Canada to defend against the Soviets. Instead, Canada sought to fill the role by purchasing American-made aircraft, a view largely seen as being based on pressure from the US.

Later, in 1962, Diefenbaker was highly critical of John F. Kennedy for what he felt was "keeping him in the dark" about the Cuban Missile Crisis.

I don't really buy that Canada would have remained more loyal to the Brits and less to the US. Unfortunately the split in the timeline occurs in the 50s; it would have been much "easier" if it had occured in the 60s and 70s during the reign of Trudeau (famous for his friendliness towards Fidel Castro and nosing-up a lot of American foreign policy sentiments) and Pearson. But Canada during the late 40s and 50s was strongly supportive of the "liberalization" of the British Commonwealth, relaxing its controls, allowing Commonwealth nations (namely Canada, South Africa, India and Australia) more independance.

I think its more likely that the tradition carried on by Pearson and Trudeau to form a more "third positionist" Canada, removing itself from the "two-camp" Cold War, would be a more likely cause for annexation (likely the original Fallout writers drew inspiration for the annexation of Canada based on US-Canada troubles during the 60s). With hostilities growing alarmingly between the US and China, Canada's "backseat" position would largely be viewed as quite annoying and worthy of military annexation. For instance, if St Laurent hadn't lost that election, production on the Avro Arrow continued, and a more "economically and socially independant" Canada continued to form, it would've made for a more unfriendly relationship with the US. Not only was Canada refusing to capitulate fully with America's global security plans, their development of independant military projects and unwillingness to face America's enemies, and the proximity to occupied Alaska, would have been all the provocation a paranoid US military would need.

An annexation, though, probably wouldn't have been all too violent. Quebec would certainly have been a major hot-seat of resistence. Just as today, Canada would have its fair share of conservative-minded people who would openly support American "aid" coming to Canada, and the formation of a conservative proxy government at America's behest. Think of the Nazi occupation of Austria; it was largely bloodless, and although there was some resistence, nay-sayers were quickly removed from their posts and replaced with submissive yes-men, and most of the population was largely somewhat apathetic. Similarly, resistence in Canada would probably have been low-key, mainly official, with lots of activists but little action, save for pockets of hardened resistence and underground organizations agitating for resistence. The Canadian military would probably have remained, albeit with most of its leadership replaced with pro-US officials.
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*Chloe*
 
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Post » Thu May 26, 2011 11:14 pm

We have to make the assumption that the average Canadian's mindsets would have not been changed by the radical government policies of the 60's and 70's and that Canadians themselves would still be living in a 1950's mentality. With that having been said, though yes its true that Canadians would not be as much children of empire, as they once were, but it would also be construed that monarchism would hold a certain place in the hearts of most English speaking Canadians.
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Meghan Terry
 
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Post » Thu May 26, 2011 8:52 pm

The monarchy hasn't held a special place in our hearts for over a century. We too had an independance movement (which unlike the US' resulted in complete failure) and while our history of independance from Britain hasn't been as bloody it has occured. And like I said, the last amendment to the constitution referring to British influence and authority in Canada was during the 50s.

It probably depends on the state of Britain during, before, and after the Resource Wars. There's no specific mention of the state of the UK, just that it was part of the European Commonwealth and that said Commonwealth dissolved into confrontation and petty struggle after the oil ran out.

My point is that Canada's self-appointed position as "international peacekeeper" and "nuetral party" was born during the 50s. Prior to that, however, Canada was more than willing to side with the US; we sent 30,000 troops to Korea from 1950-1953. However, during the Suez Canol Crisis we refused to support any one nation over another (including Britain) and brokered a deal to avoid war. After the Cuban Revolution Canada, along with Mexico, was the only country to maintain full diplomatic relations with Castro's government. Fidel visited Canada in 1959. This not only enraged the US but also the UK.

This period is also when NORAD was developed and implimented. Canada bought several nuclear payload delivery missiles from the US but refused to allow the actual nuclear warheads onto Canadian soil.
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D IV
 
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Post » Thu May 26, 2011 10:33 pm

Here is a list of weapons possibly in use by the Armed Forces of the Dominion of Canada & RCMP/Civil Defense Pre-Annexation:

FN C1
FN C1A1
FN C2A1
FN C1D (Royal Canadian Navy)
FN C1A1D (Royal Canadian Navy)
C7 (Possible Replacement for the FN C1)
C7A1 (Possible Replacement for the FN C1)
C7A2 (Possible Replacement for the FN C1)
C8 Carbine (Possible Replacement for C1 Submachine Gun and Sten Gun for AFV Crews)
C1 Submachine Gun
Sten Gun (Would also be present in Civil Defense Stocks)
Lee Enfield Number 4 Mk I (Would also be present in Civil Defense Stocks)
C3A1 sniper rifle
.338 Cal Medium Range Sniper Rifle
12.7mm McMillan Tac-50 Sniper Rifle
Lee Enfield (SMLE) Mark III (Civil Defense Stocks Only)
Colt "New Service" Revolver (RCMP)
Colt Model 1911 Pistol (Civil Defense Stocks)
Smith & Wesson 2nd Model "Hand Ejector" Revolver
Smith & Wesson "Military & Police" Revolver
Inglis "High Power" Pistol
Browning Hi-Power
SIG-Sauer P225(Provost Sections, Close Protection Teams & Naval Boarding Party)
Enfield No. 2 MkI Revolver (Provost Sections)
Webley Mark VI Revolver (Royal Canadian Navy)
Heckler & Koch MP5 (Naval Boarding Party)
C5 General Purpose Machine Gun
Bren Light Machine Gun (Would be present in Civil Defense stocks)
C6 General Purpose Machine Gun
C9 Light Machine Gun
M2 Heavy Machine Gun
Remington 870 Tactical Shotgun
Flamethrower, Portable, No 2 "Ack-Pack"
Javelin surface-to-air missile
PIAT(Civil Defense Stocks)
3.5" Rocket Launcher
106mm recoilless rifle
Carl Gustav
ERYX
TOW
M72 SRAAW

* Note that the list is incomplete * Any and all further additions to the list are encouraged.
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Bethany Watkin
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 11:59 am

How about writing an article about pre-annexation Canada in the Fallout Fanon wiki?

http://falloutfanon.wikia.com
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Queen
 
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Post » Fri May 27, 2011 1:10 am

Here are a few units, which would have evolved in the Fallout Universe:

The Canadian Special Air Service:
Formed: 1947 from components of FSSF(Devil's Brigade) & 1CanPara under Major Guy D'Artois
Branch: Army
Type: Special Forces
Size: 3 Regiments
Garrison/HQ: RHQ: Currie Barracks, Calgary, Alberta
1CSAS: Currie Barracks, Calgary, Alberta
2CSAS: Camp Petawawa, Petawawa, Ontario
3CSAS: RCAF Station Lahr, Lahr, West Germany
Motto:Who Dares Wins

Royal Canadian Naval Beach Commando
Formed: 1942
Branch: Royal Canadian Navy
Type: Special Forces
Size: 4 Regiments
Garrison/HQ: RCNBC HQ: HMCS Cornwallis, Annapolis County, Nova Scotia
Fleet Commando Atlantic: HMCS Stadacona, Halifax, Nova Scotia
Fleet Commando Pacific: HMCS Naden, Victoria, British Columbia
Port Security Section Commando: Naval Radio Station Bermuda, Bermuda
Fleet Landing Force: RCNAS Shearwater, Shearwater, Nova Scotia


Royal Canadian Naval Infantry:
Formed: 1950 (Originally from members of the Regulating Branch/RCN Beach Commandos)
Branch: Royal Canadian Navy
Type: Fleet Security
Size: 1 Regiment per RCN Facility + 1 Regiment Per Royal Canadian Naval Reserve Division
Garrison/HQ: RCNNI HQ: HMCS Naden, Victoria, British Columbia



Royal Canadian Air Force Airfield Security Regiment:
Formed: 1950 (Formed from members of RCAF Service Police, and RCAF Personnel with Airfield Security Training)
Branch: Royal Canadian Air Force
Type: Airfield Defense
Size: 1 Squadron Per RCAF Station + 1 per RCAF Reserve
Garrison/HQ: RCAFASR HQ: RCAF Station Winnipeg, Winnipeg, Manitoba
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djimi
 
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