Nothing new here, just more musings and speculation.

When I found out that there were ~ranks~ to Perks that offered different benefits AND that they were level-locked, I realized that "building" my character might be more involved than I thought it would be.

Normally while leveling up, my choices were pretty cut-and-dried. Back in Fallout-3, for example, I never bothered with Swift Learning (more experience? why?!) and I never bothered with perks that ~just~ increased skills (Gun Nut, etc). As a result, my first perk choices were pretty much made for me --- Black Widow, offered a nice damage boost and dialog potential... and then later things like Better Criticals, Action Girl and so on. There weren't a huge number of "legitimate" choices.

NOW, however, in Fallout-4, there will be ~tons~ of choices, even with the level-and-SPECIAL-gating of perks. Assuming you started with 4's across the board (to make my math easier) then you would have 35 perk choices at your first opportunity to pick one. And while some of these perks may still be easy to discount ---- STR, END and LUCK perks are not high on my list, eg. ---- there are still a lot of choices available. Things that we took for granted in earlier games, like Sneaking and Hacking and Lockpicking and so on.

So I started thinking: in what ~order~ would I pick my perks?

1) Combat Efficacy: Under this theory, I'd pick the perks that most immediately benefit me in combat. Likely PER or AGI if I were a ranged-weapon user or perhaps STR if I were melee-centric. Picking a perk that gave me better prices during Barter would not be important for this build (at least not at this early point in the game). Picking a perk that increased my damage, or let me shoot through walls, or Gun-Fu, or Better Criticals, though --- those could have immediate and powerful impact.

2) Access: Under this theory, I don't want to have to double-back because I was unable to open a door or hack a computer, so I would pick those perks that give me the most ~access~, either through lockpicking, hacking, or perhaps even dialog options (Black Widow, eg).

3) SHINY! Under this "theory" of choosing perks, I just pick whichever one looks shiny at the moment! Oooo! I can point a gun at a molerat and it'll cower and then I can tell it to go bite someone! I'm'a get that one! Ooo, ooo, I can carry more weight! I'm always throwing away stuff as it is too heavy, so I'll get -that- one!

The level-gating of the ranks puts another wrinkle in planning ---- if I know I have to be level 46 to get the Iron Fist perk at Rank 3 of the Brawler perk which requires STR 4 (making all these up, I know they're not accurate)..... and I don't really care about the ~earlier~ ranks of that perk "line" then I can just wait until I'm in my 40s and THEN start picking the perks in that line that will let me pick Iron Fist at level 46.

Heck, I might even keep STR one or two points lower than the level required to get a perk, knowing that I can raise STR by spending a perk point somewhere along the line before I get to level 46 when the perk I actually ~want~ becomes available.

The "ranks" add another complication in that they have the potential to "re-open" a perk you've already chosen for choice again. I mean, if you pick Black Widow as a perk, and then in the future you go to pick another perk, if your level is high enough, then Black Widow ~rank 2~ becomes available so now you have to decide if that more advanced (different?) version of the perk you already have is better than some ~other~ perk at base level, or some other perk at a higher rank, or a SPECIAL stat improvement.

Just looks like planning the ORDER in which you pick perks will be very complicated, even if we ~did~ have more detailed knowledge of the entire perk system including level-gates of higher ranks and what the higher ranks DO.

Since combat in the early game is likely to be relatively forgiving, under the assumption new players are not very skilled and have inadequate gear, I will likely focus most of my early perk choices on ACCESS items, like lockpicking and hacking and dialog-choice-modification perks. Then later, I'll start working on the more combat-oriented perks.

It'll be hard to resist starting with AGI 10 and Gun-Fu, though.

This is a good point, and something that should massively increase replay value. Starting at level 1, but with one of those godlike rank 10 perks? Yes please! Playing such a hyper-specialist from the get-go looks exponentially more interesting than in any previous BGS game. Plus, the sheer number of perks available means that even within a basic archetype, two level 10 players might have entirely different perk sets and play styles. The more I think about it, the more the new system seems like an incredible improvement.

Here's what I think my general ordering philosophy will be:

1. Access - Agree with you on this one. Fallout's strength is in the detail of the environment, the little notes left behind in terminals and such, so I want to be able to find all of that.

2. Crafting - The rebuilding concept appeals to me greatly, and I think it will be best if started early. I'll start up with a basic shack that I just don't have the resources to upgrade, and gradually add to it until it's the jewel of the wastes. I think it'll be nice to watch it grow over the course of the game. Ditto for my own equipment; in Skyrim I frequently had a rule that I could only use weapons and armor that I made myself and it made the game that much more personal.

3. Evasion - By this I mean perks that help me avoid or survive combat. Either the charisma path to defuse situations, or the agility path that might decrease my vulnerability. I like the feeling of struggling to survive, so I don't want to be a plasma-spewing juggernaut until later in the game. Until then, I'd like to get by with wits and strategy, so anything that suits that technique will qualify. Probably limit combat perks to sniping and other stealthy methods.

4. PLASMA-SPEWING JUGGERNAUT

I have to say access is of most importance for me. I'll find some way to kill the enemy, or run away, but having to walk away from a locked box because I didn't have the skills to open it will just kill me. So access, then combat, then defense. Lastly would be crafting (which may help the last two) and then dialog.

Course like most well laid plans these could all change once we see what's really needed early on in the game.

Combat and access will be my primary focus, with whatever is involved in settlement building secondary.

I will certainly need some sort of tool to plan my character. I'll have to work out exactly what I want to look like at say 30th level, then work out the most efficient build path to get there in terms of getting the most important stuff as soon as possible.

I forgot to mention this aspect.

While I know I will want to get involved in settlement building, I'm also pretty sure I won't want to do so ~right away~. I may even set my Charisma one below Local Leader's unlock rank and then later get that extra CHA point and then Local Leader down the road. It's likely that even with a low CHA and no Local Leader perk we can still do ~some~ settlement building. Just not the more advanced aspects which I can worry about later, after I have my access and perhaps dialog and combat perks selected.

And I may have INT high enough to use Gun Nut, but I won't ~select~ it for a while and instead rely on found weapons. And I'll likely never get INT high enough for robotics and energy weapons (at least on first play through) as they are not my cuppa. This may also limit me in terms of settlement building (no power generators, etc) but if I find that I feel TOO limited I may either (a) ignore it and play through a second time with a high INT/CHA character designed for building settlements or ( slooooowly build up the SPECIAL and perks until I ~can~ do what I want to do.

This would be ideal --- starting from a level-gated perk I know I want and working ~backward~. That way I don't get to that point and realize that I had earlier picked perks I don't really need ~now~ and should have picked other perks in order to get where I wanted to go in a timely fashion. Unfortunately, I doubt we'll see any kind of (accurate) skill planner until after the game launches.

I don't like to plan too far in advance or lay out the precise level-by-level details of what perks I'll take. I prefer the joy of discovery, so I'll probably have a few particular high-level perks that I will target in a general sense, but I won't be in a rush to get there in the most optimal way. I like to just go with the flow.

This is also my general philosophy. In past games, I raised Lockpicking & Science up early so that I rarely - if ever - had to walk away from a lock or computer terminal. That's my plan with FO4, as well. Any perk that grants me more access is a must-buy ASAP.

Same here. Especially since my memory can be hazy at times and will forget where that door with the hard lock was. Plus there is nothing worse then when I do remember, travel back to that location only to find out the loot was a few bullets and a stim.

I don't like having to walk away from a lock either, but to be perfectly honest, very few locks in past games have been barriers to much that was truly important. Not being able to get into that safe containing 34 bottlecaps, a package of mentats and a dose of psycho isn't exactly a tragedy.

i modded your post because 3/4 for me will be lighting things on fire too watch them burn and sing hymns too praise the god emperor survival is no concern its better to die for the emperor than live for yourself after all.

i also agree the level of choice will such great leap over past BGS games its staggering realy.

For me personally I'm going to go with:

Dialogue > Access > Survival/Combat.

I greatly enjoy playing characters that can pass speech checks and access different dialogue options. I also find it very annoying if I can't access a locked room, container, or computer, not for extra loot, but the possibility that I'll miss a note or interesting item that adds to the story in some small way.

As such, my first three perks will probably be Lady Killer - Lockpicking - Hacking. After that I'll focus a bit more on combat while also raising my overall charisma fairly high since, due to the fact that we no longer have a speech skill, charisma itself appears to be what will govern your ability to pass speech checks.

Wait are perks not like in skyrim were its a linear tree?

I have a vague idea of how my first character evolves, Ill focus first on perks then increase special, first a gun nut rank, a lone wanderer rank and a combat rank or two, after that I play by ear.

correct you could start with 10 in str and first perk you chose could be rank 1 of that perk after first rank thou they have lvl requirements

Weapon Crafting (Science) > Combat (Rifleman, Toughness) > Access (Hacker, Lock picking) > Settlement Crafting > Anything else I want

Really good topic Sorpaigen! There is lots to think about here. I will probably follow pretty close to my planned character but I may have to resort to the SHINY! now and then.

Nope, you can freely pick perks in any order along the vertical line of perks associated with a stat.

(Tho ranks within a perk is linear, so before getting rank two in say bloody mess you first have to buy rank one)

Oh cool so if I meet the level requirement I can skip over perks on the list. But if its a level two perk of a perk I didnt choose then I cant select it? That makes sense and it offers waay more freedom then in skyrim .having to choose all those unwanted perks just to get the one I wanted oh dear lord the horror THE HORROR WHY SKYRIM WHYYYY!!!

No. You don't have to pick a Strength 1 Perk before you can select a Strength 2 level Perk. As long as you meet the Special and Level requirements, you can grab a perk from anywhere in the chart. You don't have to go in order down each Special column.

yeah the way todd posted the 1 to 10 thing in terms of power is as follows

" It was our goal that all the Perks be balanced amongst each other, regardless of if they required a 1 or a 10. The higher the SPECIAL requirement, the more focused or exotic the Perk was for that playstyle. Take for example the Agility 1 Perk Gunslinger (20% more damage with pistols), and the Agility 10 Perk Gun Fu (your 2nd target in V.A.T.S. takes 25% more damage regardless of weapon)"

so as long meet the special/level requirements you can purchase any perk or perk rank you choose. so there will way less i don't wanna use this perk because i need for one i realy want its more about choosing the perks/perk ranks that reinforce your characters play style

I have the loosest of plans right now, and all this may change once I get my grubby little mitts on the game.

I can see myself focusing on combat effectiveness first, then crafting of a base and weapons. I will take notes as I progress through the surrounding area of my base, and come back to any place I might be locked out of later in the game. I am using Charisma as a dump stat at first, 1 point in that category at the start of the game. I will build his Charisma throughout the game as it makes sense to do so. I figure his charisma would build as his reputation spreads.

What's that old military saying, "No plan survives first contact with the enemy"?

Ill be making my perk decisions once im in the open wastes. There's so many unknowns to account for with what the stats mean in context with the game world and which ones would be most worthwhile in X but not Y situation that I just can't see any of my plans before November surviving first contact with the raiders at Concord.

i will go with access > Dialog > Combat

All I know is that Solar Powered is going to be my first perk. In fact, I'll probably invest in all of the Endurance perks early on to get a head start in defensiveness. Then, I'll start improving my crafting and basic combat skills.

Suddenly I'm grateful for the level requirements on additional ranks. That'll keep me from putting all of my eggs in one basket in the early game and focus on more immediately accessible, valuable perks. I'll have time to bump up my Charisma or take some crafting perks while I'm waiting to be able to take extra ranks of Toughness or Gunslinger.