As the classic tropes go

"They changed it, now it svcks"

"Its the same, now it svcks"

Pseudo commentary like this implicits that one may not share their thoughts if there's a precedent for them... I'm presuming there's a more equitable intention?

The core experience; while dressed differently functions near-identically.

Again I credit BGS for the 'risks' they have taken, but Fallout 4 is a game of refinement with ancillary implementations to obfuscate such a realisation (of which are extensions of previous features).

It does no such thing, stop trying to turn everything into some petty fight so you can throw your thesaurus around.

All it was, and all it is, is a joke, pointing out the common, and often contradictory, trends among fan-bases feelings over changes and similarities between various versions of the same story/universe.

So? Doesn't that apply to pretty much every sequel in any franchise?

Honestly, I don't care if it's different or if it's the same. Whether it's Skryim with guns or Fallout 3 with prettier graphics, I'm good.

I just care if it's fun or not. And Fallout 4 looks fun.

A lot of truth is said in jest... it's a pseudo commentary that does nothing more than tacitly condemn firm opinions either way

No, just too many AAA sequels; though Bethesda manages to elude the criticisms that many sequels receive for such repetition.

I don't follow. Bethesda's far from rehashing their games to the extent of games like Call of Duty, or other annually released titles. And I've never played a sequel, AAA or otherwise, that didn't maintain the core gameplay of it's predecessor. With the exception of Fallout 3 from Fallout 2, of course. Or Morrowind from Daggerfall.

What games do you think stand as great examples of sequels that change the core gameplay?

Hitman blood money to absolution. All they needed to do was make it a sandbox, and they [censored] it up.

I'd actually say bethesda changes their games up fairly well. They improved combat from morrowind to oblivion to skyrim. Overhauled their attributes and leveling system (for the better, although i think some people disagree). They have make pretty good graphical improvements between releases. They make open world rpgs, I don't want them to stop to make fallout or tes into a new genera, they know what they're good at.

Honestly, I would not mind a F4 style return to attributes in the next TES.

Agreed.

I want there to be a big difference in how the character plays and handles between my warrior, thief, and mage.

Personally I'm looking forward to playing F4 in a more technologically advanced and more livable area.

First two Fallouts were in the American South West.

F3 was the Capital Wasteland, a place hit so bad there weren't even live trees around.

FONV was in the Mojave Desert.

Boston is one of the most preserved major cities on the East coast so pickings should be good.

I think it is cool that you can get limited access to power armor early on.

Plus with the right perks you can mod any thing.

The tech feels more usable and accessible and not so Mad Scientist vibe like in Old World Blues.

Which makes sense since the SS is from the pre Great War world.

Of course the Institute and the Synths will provide plenty of Mad Scientist vibes.

I'm glad Boston looks livelier than DC. I always felt uncomfortable living in the Capital Wasteland, even in a secure mod-added vault.

Playing Skyrim again, its heavily modded form with attributes and more perks than you can shake a stick at is actually better than the previous leveling systems IMO. And the Skyrim Perks Enhanced mod actually has useful perks, not just things like better damage. So it's good that Fallout 4 is going in a similar direction.

I just wonder if Fallout 4 would fix some issues I have with the previous 2 games:

1). If you tried to put items in a container, without mods, your inventory was not categorised like in Morrowind and Oblivion. I spent a lot more time in menus because of this frustrating feature.

2). I find it hard to believe that someone who has a high Speech skill can't haggle properly. Really breaks immersion with the Barter checks.

Skyrim's containers didn't have inventory categories (and that was basically half the entire reason I installed SkyUI), but they did in Fallout 3 and New Vegas - Just click on the arrows next to the container names on the top of the screen. We haven't seen much of Fallout 4's container menu, just the Junkjet loader, but it by and large looks the same as the last two games.

As for Speech and Barter, those are both governed by Charisma now instead of being separate things, although there is a Cap Collector perk dedicated specifically to Barter.

I am pretty excited about all of the changes to Fallout 4, with the possible exception of the voiced protagonists. Before any one says, I have done my homework, listened to the interviews and am fairly optimistic that the voiced protagonists will be alright. I just really need to play the game to see how I like the new dialogue system first.

As for the other changes, I would have to say that I am looking forward to the new S.P.E.C.I.A.L. perks and ranks system. I think it looks awesome.

Looking forward to weather in this installment.

Settlement building, also something new, looks like a lot of fun.

Really looking forward to the see how they have improved Dogmeat, and hopefully other companion interactions.

I am super excited to see how the story is going to unfold, seeing how they are keeping it so tightly under wraps.

All said, I am pretty hyped for Fallout 4.

edit: can't type

I'm really excited about the settlement building - I expect they'll expand on that even more with every new game in the series. It certainly lends itself to some fun modding from the community. Great addition to the game I think.

you could be a very eloquent speaker but have no clue about how market value works

If it was like fallout where attributes mattered id be happy with that. Although without the skills/perks fusion i think tes is better off the way it is, unless they can make them amount to getting more health/magicka/stamina.

That be kinda like asking ferrari to make a affordable off road vehicle, don't think they be intrested, better to stick to what they are good at.

So, a politician.

I do think there should be a distinction between Speech and Barter, but in all of the older games Barter just wasn't that useful on it's own, especially as you eventually got all of the money you could ever need. Makes more sense just from a gameplay standpoint to roll them into one stat and have perks do the rest of the major separation, IMO.

I'd personally wager that there's probably a greater difference between the core gameplay of World at War and Black Ops 3 than that of Fallout 3 and 4 (over the same time period no doubt).

There's many examples of series that have managed to elegantly innovate on their core gameplay ethos while eschewing incongruity.

The best examples are probably the Super Mario series and the Metal Gear Solid series, both retaining their core ethos without stunting any potential for evolution.

While by contradistinction Fallout 3 and probably 4 can't even be deemed as strategic action roleplaying games; even though they are predicated on an ethos of strategic combat in the original games.

BGS has retained an immutable gameplay experience for nearly 10 years, with the only difference being how ones skills/perks/attributes skew combat in the players favor.That last change of significance was the removal of 'dicerolls' from Morrowind to Oblivion, and even then how much did it change the gameplay experience (I've only briefly played Morrowind so it's a sincere question)?

^This.

Barter was one of those "too narrow to be actually useful" skills. Merging it into speech, and then just using perks to create differences, makes a lot more sense.