Another thread got me thinking about VATS and how it's different in Fallout 4 than in previous iterations, and something occurred to me: we don't really know (for sure, as far as I know) exactly how VATS and Action Points work in the new Fallout.

In previous Fallout games you could enter VATS mode and it would freeze time. Then you could calmly pan over your enemies, checking the percentage chance to hit various body parts, etc and you could select to shoot ~this~ raider in the arm and then move to another raider and shoot him in the leg.... But then you could change your mind, "back up" and un-select the second raider's leg and instead fire another shot at the first raider's arm (perhaps you are not confident the first shot will hit, thanks to a low percentage).

As you make selections, the action points required will be deducted (or added, if you cancel a shot) so you know how many shots you can / will make once you release VATS' time-stop. If you had a sniper rifle you might be lucky to get two shots before you run out of action points but if you had a quick pistol you could get maybe eight or more shots, say. But at some point you run out of action points and you cannot make any more target selections in VATS. You could, of course, not use ~all~ your action points if you wanted to save some for later.

You release VATS mode, time un-freezes and your character executes your chosen attacks and the Action Points are burned.

In the new Fallout-4, VATS mode just ~slows~ time down. So I guess the first question is..... while VATS is slowing time, are action points being expended continuously? If not, what's to stop you from running around in VATS slow mode ~all the time~ if you wanted? Do weapons still require X number of action points per shot? Does a sniper rifle take more action points per shot than a pistol, still?

Worst case scenario would be that action points burn while you slow time ~and~ your weapons have an action point cost. Danger there is that if you dilly-dally and take your time while in slow-motion to pick a target you may run out of action points and be unable to actually take a shot inside VATS.

If VATS does not inherently consume action points, then it'll be more like the conventional VATS where each weapon consumes action points per shot. So what determines how long you can stay in slow-motion mode, then? Is it strictly time-based? After say ten seconds, VATS releases slow-motion time and if you have not made any target selections, then you don't fire? Can you de-select a target like you could in previous games?

Do none of your attacks actually fire until you release slow-motion? What if you target a foe's gun-hand with a 78% chance of success but then you move over to target his buddy and in the slow-motion time it takes to target the buddy's gun-hand, the first guy has moved behind cover and now you have a 2% chance to hit the gun-hand? Can you "hold" the time-slow until the first target moves again, perhaps restoring your chance to his his gun-hand again?

Of course while you're holding the time-slow, they're moving and firing at you (in slow motion), changing your percentages to hit.... until you finally "release" VATS mode and execute whatever moves you've chosen.

In original VATS, if a foe were behind cover, you simply could not select the shot. But in Fallout-4 you could target a foe with a 90% chance of success and then he could (slow motion) run around the corner ----- when you release VATS, does it "cost" you action points to fire at that foe, even though there's no chance of hitting him?

If you don't select all your shots and ~then~ 'release' VATS from time-slow mode, can you actually TAKE shots while still in VATS mode? So you could target a foe who was moving and wait, wait, wait... and then when the percentages are highest, hit the Fire button and shoot ~then~ or does that just lock in an attempt to shoot once you release VATS (during which time he may move and change the percentage)?

Of course the easy answer is: we'll find out in November.

From what I've been able to glean from the various videos, I suspect I will be entering VATS mode, quickly finding a target spot, then releasing VATS to execute the attack as quickly as possible, before the percentages change. Then enter VATS mode again almost immediately and target another spot then quickly release VATS to execute that attack. I just can't see any way to make multiple target selections and ~then~ release VATS to have them all execute back to back to back. Which makes me wonder how perks like Gun-Fu will work (where, presumably, you're making multiple shots from within VATS).

Well, I take that back... I -can- see how you could make multiple selections while in VATS mode: from sneak-attack. If foes are not moving (or on a regular, slow patrol) I can see where you would have time to line up multiple shots and not risk the foe(s) changing your percentages too drastically.

One of the first mods I get will definitely be one that augments the slow-time effect DRASTICALLY, however. Assuming that's not possible with an in-game slider (difficulty setting, eg) or through a perk rank somewhere.

EDIT: Hopefully this doesn't post twice --- had a weird "driver error" on the gamesas forums first time I tried.

I like what they have done with VATS even though I'm not a fan of it. VATS was originally created for a turn-based environment, but I like how FO4 has done it. It's like a cross between VATS and bullet time. I think now it looks more logical, streamlined, and less cheat-like than in FO3. I find FO3 VATS rather ridiculous for a real-time environment where you stop time as long as you want in the middle of a battle. I actually modded the VATS mechanics in New Vegas to make it less cheat-like.

Since ya can't really move in VATS I assume AP works as normal, balance now comes from the fact that you can use the movement of foes to be tactical with shots, but in turn they can keep shooting at ya.

The Best Case Scenario would be that you continuously burn AP while in VATs and that actions in VATs cost AP.

VATs made more since in turn based games and although it does certainly help RPG centric gamers it just feels cheaty in FPS style games. That said I do hope that both the FPS and VATs are more satisfying than in the previous game.

VATs actions results take place in slow motion.

Even though I haven't played Fallout New Vegas on PC, I've seen enough footage to tell that I'll enjoy a more Project Nevada style use if VATS.

I'm guessing that in order to avoid VATS being misused, AP begins a slow burn the moment you start it. and expends the total AP cost of the action when executed. If you can actually enter VATS without costing any AP, then I'm thinking that there will be some minimum AP cost if you exit VATS without executing an action and there will be a timer that limits how long you can remain in VATS and possibly even a cooldown after VATS before you can enter it again.

It's an interesting question and we certainly don't have any kind of official answer on how AP works with the new VATS system. I wouldn't hold my breath that we find out before release, either.

I think they kept VATS so that players who prefer a more character-skill based combat experience still have the option to play that way and not force them into the more FPS player-skill based combat outside of VATS.

Options are good in my opinion. It allows people with different tastes to enjoy the same game.

As to how VATS will function? There's a lot of possibilities. My bet would be that once you go into VATS you can't move or shoot or swing a weapon, but enemies can still move and shoot you, just in slow motion. You can use it to quickly get your bearings while potentially taking fire, or you can use it to line up one or more shots and have VATS use your characters skills to calculate your percentage to hit. Once you select your shots and confirm your selection, your character automatically takes the shots and time goes back to normal. Such an implementation wouldn't require the consumption of AP to balance it imo.

I looked at some of the videos, and I didn't see the AP bar getting used up by being in VATS. The player lined up multiple shots, and as he did so, a red bar incrementally appeared above the green AP bar to show how much AP would be burned by those shots. It's a bit of a risk to line up too many shots at a time, since the hit chance does continue to change as the target moves.

Presumably, as long as you stay in VATS, you can go back and deselect a target or add other ones to your shot list, and once you release VATS, all of your shot attempts will play out based on the chances to hit at that time.

I don't really see a need to limit how long the player can stay in VATS. You can't take free shots or do other actions while in VATS mode, so it doesn't really grant any advantage. The longer you stay in the mode, the closer your enemies get to you, even if time is slowed.

Yeah.. I too went and looked at footage.. seems to work exactly the same as old vats except that time is simply bullet time and not at a complete stand still. I am wondering about player movement in vats and backing out of it though. Like, can you line up three shots and then change your mind on the second shot?

I think that's how it works, yeah. There's an "Abort" button during the actual shooting cinematic, which will be handy if the target moves behind cover during the fight - although the P9 perk might give us some more capability to still hit them from cover (or even maybe use VATS as a Detect Life effect?). That's also when the "Execute Critical" option appears.

Good.. I love yelling "Abort! Abort!" almost as much as I love yelling "Run Away!" Run Away!" I plan to do lots of running away in fallout. Not sure if I'll be doing as much of it as I did in Witcher 3.. but here's hoping!.

There doesnt need to be a penalty for using the time slow mechanic.. nor an AP cost... for one very important reason.. VATS is a HUGE disadvantage... its why all the other games gave you + resistance/armor ect while your in VATS.. because you cannot move while in VATS.. using AP while being unable to move would just make VATS not worth using ever since you already have the penalty of being a sitting duck not being able to move while enemies can and will be shooting at you the entire time your not moving making you incredibly easy for them to hit.

Also if you didnt know the execute critical is a luck thing... unlike normal crits in other games your crit bar charges while in combat and then when its full you can manually force a critical hit on demand... luck reduces the time needed to charge the crit bar.

Are we ~sure~ that you cannot move while in VATS, now? Even if there is no player movement during the video, who is to stay that maybe the player just ~decided~ not to move?

If it just ~slows~ time for the foes, who's to say it doesn't slow time for the player as well, so you can move, but at the same slow pace as the foes. The bullet time mod I used in New Vegas, eg, let me move in slow-motion (of course it was not proper VATS with cutscene kills or percentage chances on body parts)... made it great for sliiiiiding around a corner in slow motion and ~then~ firing at the foes. If the player IS locked into place one you trigger VATS, then I guess you'd have to slide around the corner, hope all the foes are visible to you (or will move into visible range before you run out of slow-time-juice).

Still not fond of the idea that you "build up" critical chance and then ~choose~ to execute the critical after combat has been going a while (long enough to fill the meter). I never liked fights to last very long --- snipe, snipe, unleash bulletstorm, fight's over. Doesn't seem like there would be time to fill the crit meter and then by the time you went to execute it, all the foes are nearly dead anyway. Whoop de doo, you crit hit a guy with 12 hit points left.

I think it would be pretty sweet if we could move during VATS, yeah.

As for crits, we still don't completely know how those work. Or really how they work at all. Don't know how we fill the meter, or how criticals happen outside of VATS, or anything.