Man, what?

You ending with the Institute.....I really don't get how you're talking all this nonsense about the BoS but you joined the Institute....you seem awfully confused like all hell.

I ended with the Institute because I wanted to be an [censored] to my character. There's no way my Survivor would have ever sided with anyone but the Railroad normally. Terrorist extremists that they may be. However, I thought it made the better story that the BoS destroyed the Railroad (my PC forced to go along with it).

Because I don't like "happy endings."

I don't think the Institute is what's best for the Commonwealth. I just judged it a cooler Role-play experience that my SS had to choose between the BoS and Institute and which was better for the Commonwealth.

A choice of evils.

Crazy, huh?

It comes from being a writer of Dark Fantasy I think.

Child Killing? Because they want to destroy the Institute and all in it, or is there other child killing going on with the Railroad?

The founding principle at the core of the Brotherhood's belief system, is that the use of dangerous technology is what lead to the Great War. Its why the Brotherhood wants to control all technology and hide it away.

Ironically, they seem to believe that nobody but themselves are capable of using the technology correctly, so maybe in that sense its not a direct violation of the codex. But it sure as hell is hypocrisy, since what makes the Brotherhood oh-so-great stewards? Nothing I've seen them do makes me think they'd be any better than say, the Followers. Hell they use technology for war all the time. Warring against the NCR and justifying it as some noble crusade as a perfect example.

But if the Brotherhood's codex is founded on hypocrisy...well then there you go. Grade A+ organization.

Children on the BOS and in the Institute.

You can't finish the game without getting the Fallout 1 and 2 Disadvantage.

Which blows.

Also, the Railroad shoot at Civilians and Scientists during your attack and don't ask you to sound the Evacuation Order (like the BoS).

They want to kill EVERYONE in the Institute.

Notable, though, the original BoS isolationalism makes sense.

They're not trying to use technology against Wastelanders.

They're custodians, not conquerors.

Lyons' actions changed their mandate and made them users of the tech which they were supposed to keep locked away forever.

Kind of interesting, that.

Veronica comments what made Elijah so crazy and radical was he said he wanted to USE the technology the BoS had.

Than I guess Maxson and me see eye to eye.

It's not any more 'hypocritical' than the police shooting people for shooting people is hypocritical, is it?

Well if your organization is devoted to rebuilding civilization and preventing nuclear holocaust, nuking civilizations is a kind of crappy away of going about it.

But suit yourself.

I care about the bottom line when it comes to best ensuring the long term future of humanity and long term recovery from the nuclear war. There may come a time when all these weapons are not needed anymore but that time is not yet....not with all the horrors still running around. Extreme circumstances call for extreme measures and it is always a balance of costs vs gains.....using this underground explosion to eradicate a psychopathic organization that would lay waste to what's left of humanity doesn't magically mean anyone involved would suddenly be ok to creating another nuclear war or creating another glowing sea or doing anything remotely close to what transpired during the great war. You stubbornly sticking to a small bit of logic to justify the destruction of a large part of the BoS and hand control to a group of synths is problematic for the future of the human race. Not least because they were created and intended as weapons and are programmed to automatically erase inconvenient bits from memory. Whatever their intentions and whatever their emotions at the very best they are equivalent to schizophrenic people who at any moment may do something very drastic and horrible. Nobody in their right minds would let a mentally ill man prone to suddenly switching mindset and murdering others run free. It's not about bigotry it's not about inequality or lack of sympathy.....it's about securing the survival of the human race. Synths get the same treatment I would offer people prone to doing the things they are prone to doing in a world where the survival of our species is in a very delicate balance.

I assume you're roleplaying.

To reiterate on the roleplaying aspect, my Sole Survivor's opinion on the Brotherhood of Steel was that they were a bastion of familiarity and order in what was a chaotic and hellish land. The Minutemen were fine and he liked helping them but it was clear they didn't have much of a plan for rebuilding the Commonwealth while the Brotherhood of Steel had the tech, the vision, the leadership, and the organization. He liked Scribe Haylen and the Remnant of the US Military continuing the fight against the horrors of the Wasteland felt "Right."

I decided to roleplay a sense of unease once he got to the Prydwen, though. My Survivor had grown up in a United States controlled by the Enclave and his grandfather had fought against the Nazis in World War 2. He could pick up on the fascist undertones of things like "Ad Victorium", the "Purity Tests" given to him, and the fact they wanted to kill all nonhumans despite the fact they hadn't done anything more.

There was a lot of flashbacks to the Resource Wars which the Sole Survivor had fought in. The Brotherhood of Steel was a comforting reminder of the Pre-War days but it was increasingly clear the more he travelled with them, the more it was clear they were TOO much like the Old Earth United States military. When he went out into the Glowing Sea and saw the Nuclear Silos full of atomic bombs and Danse was like, "Yeah, we're going to use these."

The Survivor knew they had to be stopped.

But could he turn against his friends?

People he liked and cared for?

People who had done so much good for the Commonwealth (blasting Super Mutants, raiders, and helping protect the people)?

It was the destruction of the Railroad and betrayal of Paladin Danse which convinced him to go all Institute, though. With no option to free the Synths via a revolt and the Minutemen too weak (in my Survivor's opinion) to defeat both the Brotherhood plus the fact CHILDREN were in the Institute, I decided the Institute was the lesser evil. I could maybe do a bit of good as Director and work to free the Synths that way. The Brotherhood would kill my family, though, (Curie being Wife 3#) as well as all the people in the Institute both Synth and human.

It was a hard choice but the Sole Survivor felt it was the right thing to do....right up until the Prydwen fell from the sky and nuked the Airport.

And he realized he'd brought about the same kind of Armageddon he'd survived.

War....war never changes.

They're not nuking civilizations though, just isolated targets. The Institute managing to spread its synths all over the wasteland, now that's something to rival a nuclear holocaust, since it would affect all life across the wasteland and be pretty much impossible to contain. Hence the need to destroy the source of the plague.

Yeah, well all of civilization is a series of isolated targets.

But I put my roleplaying opinion above.

I also DO hope for a Doctor Zimmer and his EVIL Synth Army DLC, BTW.

A very twisted way to go about being purposefully misguided.

From a player standpoint, it was just awesome to fight the BoS.

They're my favorite part of Fallout (albeit overused) and having a good reason to have them as antagonists was fun.

The battle against the BoS at the airport was INSANE.

(Because I did it wrong)

Well, we're all arguing about our roleplaying opinions, right? I hope?

And I also do hope for some good dlc. Though where would Zimmer get a synth army? He doesn't even have Harkness, since the LW is apparently canonically good karma.

Well, he's been potentially missing for 15 years. God knows what he's been up to.

Given what happened in Bio-Science, I like to think Zimmer was supposed to be Director and has been building up his own army to make his own Institute and Power-Play after being passed over for Father.

Then again, this is entirely out of my butt and speculation.

But it would fit since Zimmer is missing and we've heard stories of "The Synths will kill us all!" but never saw any sign of it.

It would also fit with the cribbing from Tactics and Calculator.

My ideal Doctor Zimmer and his Evil Synth Army premise?

Sarah Lyons and Lyon's Pride went to stop Doctor Zimmer 12 years ago and failed. All of the group was killed but Sarah Lyons, who has been his prisoner and used as a DNA source for his machines ever since.

She escapes just before the game and tries to recruit you to stop him.

The game has a lot of extra-dialogue for you if you side against the BOS or Institute. Likewise, you can side with Doctor Zimmer and gain his endless army of Killbots to invade the Capital Wasteland and rule together or with Sarah to destroy it.

Sarah will attempt to kill you for destroying the BoS after the mission is finished unless you make a Speech check.

As much as I really don't want Sarah to be alive (I've tried to kill her at least twice already, via an irradiated purifier and a kill-sat... just stay dead woman, goddamnit...) this could be interesting. As long as I get the choice to side with Zimmer, of course.

I intend to do all the faction endings on throw-away saves for the trophies but I am not emotionally ready to deal with that all-over again....not yet. Eventually.....for now now I am as positive about my choices as I can be and I can't exactly imagine my character making any other choices in good conscience. For a moment there I seriously contemplated the Institute.....the game does an amazing job at throwing odd balls at you to confuse you. It's too easy to lose focus and to doubt if you take your eyes off the bottom line and lose sight of the hard truth behind all the smooth talking and trickery thrown your way.

Dude I've had some great battle's against multiple Vertibirds, Brotherhood Knights on the rampage with just me in my Colonial Duster with Cait (on survival) behind some rocks. With no armour and only 1 END it makes for a hell of a frantic time.

yeah that's one thing I'm jelly of. I roll with Danse some times just to take potshots at Vertibirds.

Just down them anyway, the Brotherhood never seems to mind. I've got 101 holotags atm and they are still so shocked when I crit-snipe the Vertibird pilot.

Liberty Prime's bombs aren't high yield. They don't saturate the landscape. They just immediately immolate.