I haven't read more than the first page, but to say that FO4 "will get stale in a matter of months" is plain wrong. Skyrim released november 2011. Dragonborn DLC was released february 2013. Legendary edition was released june 2013. Personally (27 yrs old, console), I played Skyrim last week. Could be that Elder Scrolls have more replayability for me, but I also played NV alot, finishing the game and most DLC on three characters, and starting a couple more. On Skyrim I rarely finish, but have a lot (10+?) characters I play regularly.

As goes for the yearly releases (AC, CoD), I'd prefer either much more difference, or longer developement time. I like CoD, and do think every game is good on its own. But compared to their previous release, it gets a little ridicolous. As someone who enjoys their title, I think it's saying something that I haven't purchesed their last four releases... My point? Again, the games last for quite some time. Modding will surely add to the game, even if its released a year after initial release.

When I finish my masters degree and get a job, a gaming PC will surely be purchased. Up until that, I have no problem at all having a blast on console, playing games that are arguably better on PC. To me, it seems some PC gamers are afraid that gaming on console could get up to par, and want to talk people out of enjoying their experience on console. Some like to enjoy themselves, some enjoy themselves knowing they have it better than others. It seems.

Modding on console is, at worst, a negligable feature, and FO4 will stand on its own feet. At best it will revolutionice gaming on console. Most likely somewhere in between; creating a better experience on console, as well as longevity. Thats a win-win in my book.

Console gamers can sell their games, PC gamers can't, mods could help Bethesda by encouraging more people to keep the game meaning fewer used copies on the shelves.

why can't a pc gamer sell their game? sure they can

Unless you want to sell your Steam Account along with the game, then you can't sell Fallout 4.

? you should be able to check your game out.

been a while since i've last done that though, gotta check how they're doing it now

PC elitism at it's best. I have have gone back to Skyrim and Fallout 3 and NV several times over the years putting in massive hours. I don't own a PC because I'm relatively blue collar and can't justify spending thousands on a PC that I would simply use for gaming and email. I have always been jealous of the modding community and follow modders on YouTube for all those games, just for fun.

The one thing that will stall this amazing attempt is modders not creating work geared for the consoles. Sure we could get simple items, but if the community does not take the time and effort to create work that is both compatible to the PC and consoles. If it fails I will not blame them though. I have no idea how much work it will be to do that and if it is a giant pain in the butt then they probably wont.

the good news is, you should be able to run any mod that require stuff that has to be installed on the user's side, like script extenders - and a majority of modders doesn't use these anyway, since it basically means trading a bit more scripting comfort for a vast limitation in potential userbase. and, just speaking for myself now, i personally don't think that's even close to worth it.

the bad news is though: i think you're basically right in that modders won't care much about console players, for a zillion reasons starting with that they're, by nature, pc-users themselves and might not even own a console (like myself). but then, see above, there's not much need for them to anyway.

it's actually 2 other things that give me slight concerns about mods on consoles (the first of which is their problem alone anyway though):

apart from potential performance issues from heavy mods, i fear you'll crap your hard disks in no time. most mods come with quite a lot of assets, and uhm how much hdd does, like, a ps4 have, for _everything_? 500gig? (*giggles*)

and the other thing is: up to skyrim, it's basically like that you can't "uninstall", let alone "reinstall" mods once you saved with them, since remainders of the 1st install will always stay in your save game and quite likely f** things up (esp. for "reinstallations" of the same mod). this is pretty unfunny for a modder as is already, since you'll get complaints about "bugs" that actually are side effects of messing with the installation, and it seems to be impossible to get this across to even pc users, so i'd really not want to even try for a "i bought a console so i don't have to study computer sciences to play a game" person... (and this is NOT "pc elitism", i KNOW such persons

...but maybe they changed the plugin system in ways so you now actually _can_ uninstall, that'd be the perfect version of course

If someone makes a mod that stops my sledgehammer bouncing harmlessly off the forearms of enemies who block way too often I will be very happy.

I can see it. The thing that really helps the PC end of the modding community is the speed and flexibility of most of the mods that come out. For the PC side, we're going to start seeing mods before the tool set even comes out. And Nexus is going to be flooded with a ton of the things the moment it hits.

I don't think there's an issue of console version retention there. But I do think that having to run mods through their filter is going to slow things waaaaaay down. It's a bit like the steam workshop. For Skyrim, why use it? Why not just pull mods off of Skyrim Nexus? It always seemed like the Steam workshop was the slower, sadder option of the two. It still got attention and releases, but it wasn't the heart of the modding community and it didn't drive modding for Skyrim.

So what will happen when that's the console gamer's only option? Will the ability to run limited mods (I doubt that script extenders would make it on there but it'll be awesome if they do) outweigh the limitations of them having to go through Bethesda's censor process?

I honestly don't know and will be interested in seeing how it goes. I really hope it works perfectly for the console players because the more love mods get the more mods we get.

I disagree that modders will avoid console modding because they don't use consoles, but more out of fear. Or rather inexperience will hit in terms of console only bugs in a mod.

But you make some great points here. Will PS4's and Xbox One's have the space to store all of these mods, and what happens on the software side? I've been using the hell out of mods for Bethesda games since Morrowind and I've never had a time when I didn't overload my mod list and screw something up royally to the point where I had to uninstall the game and reinstall it from scratch. Now that should be possible with a console version of the game, but it does raise some concerns about what you might be able to accidentally do to your system with mods.

On a personal note, I really hope that they don't get to tight with the censoring of mods. I get that they want to avoid anything nudity related or from sites such as LL. But Amorous Adventures for Skyrim handled that by doing the "fade to black" for love scenes and it was an amazing mod that got me back into the game. Hell, the only time I ever, EVER sided with the Imperium in a playthrough was because the mod let me romance and date Elisif and my nord wasn't going to risk loosing a chance at the throne for Ulfric. It'd be a shame if console players didn't get to play with mods like that just because of the nature of the content.

i'm not saying "avoid". i'm just saying, just mod ahead as always without any further regards to consoles, and if it works for them, cool, if not, well.........

Big issue I see with mods for consoles ... the rule of one. If one mod changes an NPC's hair, and another changes her eyes, one will over-rule the other and I doubt we'll see FO4Edit for consoles or Wrye Flash for consoles. People will download and install a bunch of mods then come here to complain about the game when it's mod conflicts they can't fix because they don't have the tools ... or [censored] at the creator of the last mod they installed that "caused crashes."

With Fallout 4, you are not buying a physical copy of the game, but a code that can only be used on Steam. Your Steam Account is forever attached to that code. Decades ago, the only protection involved finding the 43rd word of the 16th page of the game manual. Then it was the standard alphanumeric code. Both of these systems are easy to sell your PC game. With internet DRM systems, PC games have lost their resale capability.

Of course, there is Steam Refunds which requires you to have the game for less than 2 weeks and played it for less than 2 hours for you to qualify for it, but it is a refund and not selling a used product.

Remember code wheels? Red plastic color windows and a card you had to slide behind it? Black print on dark red paper to foil photocopiers? Ah, those were the days of "copy protection."

Interesting to read post from so many PC gamers complaining about how "bad" FO4 is and refusing to play it until modders fix it.

In the meantime, console gamers are playing a great game.

Who are the true gamers here?

PC elitism at it's best.

i agree

i think modding will be a revelation.

even simple mods like altering the ui slightly or something similar will be most welcomed by me and many others

nah. sold my copy of gt4 like that (been a while admittedly), confirmedly working after that - you can check the game out of your account and then sell it.

gotta check how to do this now when i find the time (iirc, there even was a context menu or start menu entry or stg just for that then)

...daaaaaamn i want my copy finally... =|

screw amazon...

GTA has carried Online for a couple years with people playing on consoles. What makes you think console gamers don't continue playing or at the very least, pick the game back up once they hear a new feature/content has been added? I still play 3/NV and I solely play on console. A lot of newer games don't interest me and I play a lot of games I've had for years over again. To blanket statement console gamers like that is stupid and just shows immaturity. But, I'm not surprised OP, not surprised at all lol I knew, seeing this thread title that it was going to be by one of maybe four users on here. I was right