I cannot beleive that you can pay 80 to 100 bucks for special edition NV then have more bugs that rad roach motel t6hen have Bethesda tell ya you have to take the unit to your buddies place to down load the patch (that they with out doubt knew) you were going to need before releasing their product what a heist bravo design team take a bow pat each other the back but, know this devoted customers like me will remember without delay the next fallout release and will remember what a screw'en they took when they last trusted YOU!!! it's realy not about having to drag my PS3 system around to get fixed it is about the thought that your team didn't give a s__t about their customers so I say to Bethesda keep the 100 Bucks I paid on your collectors edition I can assure you I WILL NOT MAKE THAT MISTAKE AGAIN...

ok

Your better off not downloading the patch anyway.

Also is english your second language?

What the [censored] are you two flaming him for? He's 100% correct. Anybody who doesn't have internet access has been screwed here.

Anybody who doesn't have net access is getting screwed on most games now days. I don't get how someone can expect to get by in this day without internet access. Especially when it comes to gamers and video games. Net access is so damned cheap anymore it's really silly that someone wouldn't have it.

I'm afraid you're all gonna have to get with it if you plan to continue playing video games. They're only going to get more dependent on internet access. Actually...our entire lives are going to be more and more dependent on net access as time goes on.

Considering the patch makes the freezing issues worse I stand by my statement he's better of without the current patch.

I'm leaning toward agreement here. The game is garbage...well, not the game itself really. In fact, the game is awesome and one of the best I've ever played but the freezing,bugs. glitches and other crap makes it near unplayable.

None of what you've just said is true, even remotely. I know you're going to contest that, and you're of course welcome to, but you're just wrong. And even if you were right, how does any of that justify selling a broken product with the knowledge that certain buyers will be unable to fix it? I could think of half a dozen anologies to put here but I'm guessing you'll at least agree with me when I say that doing that is.. oh I dont know.. ****ing ridiculous and at least a little bit immoral.

The majority of games that come out do not need to be patched. The majority of them work almoast exactly as they should. And the possibility of that changing over the coming years shouldn't be blamed on people for not having internet acces, it should be blamed on the developers of these games for getting lazier and greedier.

I'm just saying that in our society today an internet connection is becoming more and more necessary and that's only going to become more true as time goes on. Net access is fairly cheap and if you want to play games that require net access it's a little ridiculous to blame the game maker for your not having it. If you plan to patch games then you will need to get net access or stop complaining that you have to get the patches by taking your system somewhere else.

On the upside to the though...I saw something where soon there may be kiosks where you can go to get updates and patches and DLC for games. You could just go to the kiosk and insert a USB drive and DL it to that and take home with you. That might be kinda cool.

And yes, I think it's unethical for game makers to release games that need patched as soon as the consumer gets it home. We (gamers) need to do something about this! The developers will continue this practice as long as we accept it. I think it's sickening that game developers participate in this practice. The one thing we consumers have to combat such disrespect is our wallets. Until we all stop waiting in line for midnight releases or waiting at the doors on release day for the store to open they will keep doing thing. If you ask me, FONV is beta version at best and I'm terribly disappointed that this developer pulled such a deviant trick on us all. They released a half finished game in order to make the release date they set and many of us ran down to fork over $60 (or more) to make sure we had it immediately. They got by with it because we let them.

As I said, the only thing we have to fight this type of practice is our money. We all must stop trying to be the first one to get that new game in our system to play. Until we start showing more restraint and forcing them to put out a quality product the first time we are going to continue to see this happen. And judging by FONV (which is the worst case of it I've seen) it's going to get worse with developers releasing games that are less and less finished with intentions of fixing it later. We are responsible for it by demanding they meet release date deadlines! If we demanded a quality product instead of an on time product, we wouldn't even be discussing this right now.

When it comes to requiring your ps3 connect to the internet to download a patch you want to yell at Sony not Bethesda or Obsidian.

Only Sony could make it possible to install patches from a thumbdrive or similar external source plugged into the ps3, and really that should be an option. But the guys to talk to about that are sony.

Stargiss everything you say is true, I buy most games on release, thankfully most are pretty well sorted. Take a look at Medal of Honor Tier 1 or Call of Duty Black OPS, both polished so much they gleam. I'm not saying for one instant you can compare them to FONV, they are linear and simple compared to the complexity of a sandbox game like New Vegas, but my point is they're finished.

New Vegas is by no stretch of the imagination finished, my guess is that it was rushed out for the holidays to cash in, it's the only explanation for the state it's in. The thing I can't understand is what the hell were they thinking when they made the decision?

The problem is there is a flaw in the engine used by fallout 3, and somehow they made it worse in FONV

Why are Sony to blame for Bethesda's unethical buisness practice? I don't understand how Bethesda releasing a broken product has anything to do with Sony. If the game worked the way that it was supposed to, there would be no need for patches.

Oh and please don't give me that BS argument about nothing being perfect. I'm not asking for perfect. I'm simply asking that the thing I've paid for actually work. But apparently that is asking too much.

I believe he was saying that Sony is responsible for not letting people download patches to a thumb drive and then putting it on their Playstations, instead requiring you to have an internet connection to get said patches.

I guess most games now days require an Internet connection, more or less, it's a sign of the times. Look at a lot of PC games, you can't even play some because of DRM unless connected.

But that's beside the point in this particular case and regardless of a flaw in the engine used in FONV, it's down to this and applies to all developers/publishers not just Bethesda/Obsidian, if they were selling new cars would it be acceptable to sell a customer a car with faulty fuel mapping software? Software that stopped the car doing more than 20 MPH for instance? I doubt it, people would be demanding their money back in droves. When you buy a new car you expect it to work as intended straight out of the show room. The same applies to games, they should work as intended out of the box... within reason.

More and more games are being released glitched up to the eyeballs, I just bought Assassins Creed Brotherhood and it's glitched, not nearly as badly as FONV on my system anyway, which is surprising for Ubisoft, their games are usually pretty bug free in my experience. It's a trend that seems to be getting worse on consoles, perhaps because they are getting more like PC's, I gave up gaming on PC's because of the constant hardware related bugs and endless patches, it would appear consoles are now going down the same route... I would hate for that to happen as I wouldn't like to give gaming up altogether.

Or perhaps since game developers know they are able to get away with it, since they know the gaming community will buy a game regardless it's state - and since devs know gamers have no real recourse (ie - once you buy a game, you can't bring it back for a total refund, nor can you exchange it for a different game). - they release the game - because they can.


Perhaps game developers have willingly and intentionally lowered their bar with a "what the hell, gamers expect it to be broken, we'll tell them the patch will be out soon post release. That shuts a lot of them up. They are "appreciative" and extol "patience" to their fellow gamers." And don't forget - there will be enough people who can play the game shouting down the people who can't, (Nothing like good ole gamer camaraderie - I can play the game, it's great - too bad you can't! svcks for you! neener neener!!!!!) -- oh and don't forger, we can always remove/lock any forum posts we don't like, and we even have control over some game review sites. So hey - release that POS now, we'll deal with the problems later!!!.


I've been gaming since 1972. Yes - read it, 1972. (Oh, and for the record - I'm female). We were poor, but my mom and dad saved up for the Odyssey, released by Magnavox, which predated PONG by a few years). I've lived the trend of game release for thirty-eight years. And I'm betting the state games are released for consoles has nothing to do with the fact that they are "getting more like PCs" and everything to do with the fact that gamers will buy them, no matter what the state they are in. (And really this trend isn't limited to games - although certainly I think games are the worst offenders. Products in general just don't work and last like they used to. God - I sound like my mother!)

You can get a full refund in some places. Based on what I've heard on these forums it doesn't sound like you can in the United States, but you can where I live. I'm not sure if that would actually do any damage to Bethesda though, as it's the store that refunds you. So it's more likely to be harming the game store than it is Bethesda.

I know that is completely irrelevant to your point lol, but I'm just putting it out there. And for the record I do agree with you for the most part, developers release these shoddy games because they know they will get away with it. They will always break even at the very least thanks to day one purchasers. But I'm sure they will also lose quite a lot of sales in the process. The backlash from most of the people who have bought the game is bound to disencourage quite a lot of potential buyers. I've already seen a few users on this site say that they aren't going to bother buying this game at all after hearing about some of the problems. Although I doubt Bethesda willl lose enough sales to make them consider releasing a working game.

When I was in retail the store would return defective items back to the manufacturer for credit. So no, a store didn't lose money on defective items- the manufacturer replaced the defective item.

Now, if it were a case of the item not being pleasing, or not fitting (as in the case of a shirt) - the customer's money is refunded by the store, but the item is placed back on the shelves to be resold, so they don't really lose money (which is why you need original packing, slips, tags, etc to return.)