I'm ~100 hours in. I ended up starting over again because there's just -something- missing and I'm not sure what it is.

I play FO4 like I did Skyrim & NV: explore every building I come across, try & discover as much as I can w/o looking up outside-of-game resources.

This tends to get me most of my xp from killing things & activities like picking locks rather than quest xp boosts, and I usually end up "overleveled" relative to the main story quests, if I manage to do those at all.

I'm playing on the hardest difficulty if that matters.

Playthrough 1 I spent the better part of 80h building massive forts and being disappointed by the settlement system. I took perks to make my settlements cool & they put my stats all over the place, so I restarted.

I'd planned on doing a high str/end/luck build with some agi/per for crits. I've also never really been a fan of VATS, for built in accuracy/missing reasons and because it feels like a disruption of natural game flow for weird matrixy dice rolls. So I was a little disappointed a lot of the high end perks are directly tied to VATS.

For these sorts of RPGs I always feel like securing passives that decrease reliance on consumables, and ones that prevent you from being locked out of content are important. Rather than damage perks straight off, I usually beeline for carry weight, the lone adventurer CHR perk, adamantium skeleton, lockpicking, terminal hacking, and any sort of perk that's better to get early rather than later. Since I was planning Luck with low Int, I went Idiot Savant, which is more powerful the less Int you have.

But like hold up a sec. While the game does make it possible to bypass situations where you have insufficient lockpicking or hacking capabilities via other means, there's often a lot of treasure caches or cool secret things that are locked behind one/both. Terminal hacking is in the Int tree, like 4 points deep or so. Then there's the fusion core stuff for power armor. I'm mixed feelings on this - they both do seem like science-related perks and thus belong in the INT category but it also feels like you're required to get hacking maxed out if you want to explore as much as possible. That is, that any build intending to fully experience the game will be locked into the same collection of base perks. Damage preferences might vary.

The armor / weapon upgrade perks fall into this too. You're perfectly capable of playing the game only using what drops, but it feels needlessly bland at the same time. Playing with settlements and a str build, and then needing 6 pts in INT for the Gun Nut & Science perks is just demoralizing when you're trying to build a cool fort. Sure, turrets are a sciency robotic marvel, but why lock specific elements of a core gameplay system to 1 specific trait?

One of my friends really loves his power armor + souped up gatling laser. I find it cumbersome and restrictive. Being unable to use unarmed melee weapons and feeling sluggish doesn't really suit me. But again, the perk to make Power Armor svck less (via lengthened fusion core duration) is 9 pts deep in INT, and even something like Medic seems like it'd be better suited to END. I don't know, it feels like there's too much being gated behind it. Perception 4 for lockpicking is the only other true gate, none of the other stats restrict gameplay by not having them to the degree INT does.

That is, INT has so much inside it on top of the boosted xp rate that it feels like it can't be skipped and you're effectively pidgeonholed into taking it if you want to get the most out of the game. Idiot Savant is crazy good xp at 1 Int, but the Luck tree has nowhere near the same potency that the Int perks do.

Anyways, on to the combat.

Early on I felt like guns were worthless. You'd shoot at a guy and despite being practically point blank range, the attack misses because of built in accuracy. That's not a surprise, other Bethesda games were like that too, it's just "well okay then". So melee quickly became preferable because it consumes no ammo, has no accuracy issues, and forces the enemies to either block or get hitstunned - both of which mean they're no longer actively trying to shoot me which is great because I die in like 2-3 hits.

My first playthrough I got ~6-8 levels off of crafting Sanctuary before I wandered south and ended up in the Boston Commons around lvl 11-12. Weapon upgrades at this point were mostly a series of crappy guns I discarded instantly, 1 good 10mm pistol (high accuracy, dot sight), a shottie, and various melee weapons like tire irons and whatever off the raiders that vastly increased my survivability. I happened across a certain lake and it's super mutant inhabitant, and after much kiting, managed to kill it.

I love that fist weapon. But at the same time it feels so stagnant. The customization of legendary weapons is like nonexistant. There's only 2 upgrade options on that, and it came with puncturing already on it. The other upgrade (energy dmg) isn't an upgrade because armor pen is crazy good. So because of the advantages of melee, and a weapon that has both armor pen and increasing dmg/hit, I haven't found a suitable replacement for it and I'm lvl 36 now. 25+ levels of the same weapon simply because there's nothing better, and modded non-legendary melee weapons don't even compare. I picked up a Super Sledge from somewhere else, and it's .. okay.. but still doesn't really compare because it's so slow and doesn't maintain hitstun as well. This fist is only like 45 dmg? But it's still strong enough that it 1-3 hits most enemies. There's only been a few bosses where it's taken a few more hits, but then when you add in chems and the fact that I have 0 dmg perks slotted... I can only imagine how imba it'll be if I slot +100% and the 3rd tier of Lone Wanderer.

That is, gameplay stagnates because all the other options available don't compare. Headshotting some dude with a .50 cal sniper rifle only for it to take off ~30% of his hp? Np, lemme just tap him with a block of rebar and watch the giblets fly.

Guns feel so weak in comparison. I've seen pics of like, 400 dmg energy weapons fully perked out, but like.. idk. I don't seem to get guns above 40-50 dmg (shotties). I found some 160 dmg gamma pistol from a Child of Atom, but the damage is so unreliable as it's radiation-based and still pales vs melee. Stuff like miniguns and flamers require too much of an ammo/weight investment to do comparable destruction. So I've mostly just been using an unlimited capacity shotgun for ohcrap kiting, my trusty Fat Man, a hardened 10mm pistol for popping turrets + suicide mutants, and the good ol' power fist. It just feels like so much of what you find is just utterly ignorable. I have no use for caps, I'm already at like a zillion stimpacks / radaway saved up.

Idk. I don't regret the purchase, I've enjoyed myself quite a bit so far, it just feels needlessly restrictive, even if I'm poor at articulating why.

OK, let me sum up what you're saying. You made a beeline for one of the more powerful weapons in the game (in your opinion) and you're blaming the game for your using that weapon almost exclusively? Sounds to me like you spoiled things for yourself. That's like if someone were to make a beeline for Knock Knock in FONV and use that weapon exclusively (that's what I did and eventually I got bored with it).

I would change things up so that you're having fun with it. I myself enjoy the VATS system and am gonna reroll to a dude that dominates in VATS (high perception, high luck).

At some stage, the dev is going to have to trade game-play flexibility with the cost of putting more and more options into a game. Its like complaining about the dialogue. Yes, its limiting (as is the perks system) yes, one gets "railroaded" at times into aspects that are less than ideal. But, isnt the game complex enough without having more and more to wade thru in the initial learning curve? How many buyers have thrown this game to one side because its too complex or they just get it to "do it" and then move on.

Its a game, and Ive yet to see one that is perfect for everyone....even real life doesnt give you that. And bear in mind....game makers are out to make money on their games. If the game was that good...no one would want to buy another one....lol

I take the game as is, do as much as I can for as long as I can so that I get max value for money spent. I dont race to finish it ( 98 hrs played and havent even gone to Diamond City yet) nor have issues with encountered bugs. I really enjoy games for the graphics , combat, scavenging; and as Bethesda games push all three of these buttons adequately....its all good.

Comparing games with each other, or games with reality, is self-defeating, as it just leads to disappointing conclusions and disillusionment. Dont go there, just enjoy.

You guys seemed to miss the point.

The game is too easy not only because of the lack of weapon balance, but also the lack of build balance, and the over-abundance of supplies.

I feel your pain, man.

I get what you are saying. I disagree with some and agree with some. Medic should probably be in int. doctors need int not a strong immune system but it could work in either. I really think this game is all about how you play it. On survival I never have an ammo, caps, or stim/rad problem but a lot of people do. So they have to make it for the masses. Which inevitably hurts the hardcoe a bit. The accuracy problem you mention, are you talking about the kick? The first shot always hit but if you shoot again right away you miss. Is that what you mean?
Also I do want to disagree about the hacking and lock picking. I always get those right away and I find them almost useless in this game. In the past there was a point. You got good stuff. Now there is almost always another way around which completely defeats the purpose of putting points into the perks. The 1 or 2 times that I haven't found another way around, the room I opened just had regular crap inside. And the safes respawn now so even master safes are normal items as well. I suppose you wouldn't be able to get some P.A tho
I dislike level gating on the perks. With you there for sure

I didn't beeline for anything wtf, and I'm not saying it's the most powerful thing in the game.

It's just a weapon I found when I was low level through normal gameplay and other drops since haven't matched up in the slightest.

The weapon mod system doesn't seem to have much purpose when it's limited in application.

It feels more like a level up subsystem for certain weapons than it does as a user customization thing.

It doesn't make sense to purposefully use a pipe pistol or whatever to cripple my damage.

I guess if aimlessly wandering through the wasteland and getting jumped by some boss while I was looting flowers in a pond is spoiling myself... um okay then.

The general weapons available don't really seem to increase in variety or power as you level up. Occasionally you'll find a cool legendary or gun with unique usage like the Junk Jet, but like.. the weapons I'm seeing 30-40 are mostly the same weapons as I saw npcs drop 10-20. That's my complaint, that the lack of base power scaling or weapon diversity leads to repetitive gameplay. Again, I don't even have damage perks slotted. So while using perks as the form of power scaling may work well for keeping your favorite low level weapons viable endgame, it doesn't offer any variation to the gameplay itself; it's just a multiplier.

Yup, and that's fair. It's just my opinion re: Medic.

I don't really have an issue with ammo/meds now, but starting out the struggle was real. I probably died like 20 times trying to kill this one bandit outside Concorde with a 10mm pistol before I decided to just walk up and thwack him with the security baton, at which point I realized melee had innate hitstun.

Re: accuracy, I meant like, where the hit indicator widens to show you have lower accuracy, so even if your aiming is completely on point, it feels like it has a built-in chance to miss. You can see the difference in the hit indicators just swapping from pistol to shotgun, or while going from standing to moving, firing from the hip. The accuracy seems to be dictated by the width of the indicator, even if the enemy's lined up dead center of the X. I think it's intended, but just frustrating in that you're denied a hit based on rng unless using the sights with rclick.

Re: hacking/picking, I'm not sure if it's necessary or not really. I don't feel like I've gotten very far in the story even, and I've maybe only 1/4, 1/3 of the map explored. It's more the arriving at some place new & unexplored and not being able to access a terminal or a door that's soley locked by terminal and being like "oh, well then." and having to leave wondering what shiny loot or maybe even a bobblehead you left inside.

Yup, I am enjoying it. I totally get what you mean by not racing to finish it, I tend to wander into every building I see rather than focus on fast traveling to a specific point.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not demanding they change it or whatever, just sort of disappointed with some aspects of it. For all the choice we do get, it doesn't feel like functionally there's very much difference between the options.

I would have to agree with you on Intelligence, far too many other things rely on it, but things that main it don't need anything else. For example, you may be a melee user, so you've invested into Blacksmith so you can mod your melee weapons and invested nothing in Int so you could boost your other stats. Only to find out that some melee mods need science(hell, some melee weapons can only be modded if you have a rank in Science!); the same goes for if you where you using Guns, Gun Nut just isn't enough, you still need Int to get some of the mods. And then there's the energy weapons, they only rely on Int/Science! and no other perks.

No, and no to OP, too.

FO4 is a role playing game. You are supposed to create a character concept and stick with it. This means that you do not attempt to min-max the character or look at the game elements with an eye of "heck, why take this when that is so much more powerful?" Bethesda creates their games so that they support a wide variety of character concepts. From a development viewpoint, this means that they have to balance the game around many different possible character concepts (i.e., they have to include content that allows playing regardless of character concept being played). That is why there are respawning supplies, for example (aside from the fact that supplies that are taken would reappear in the real world due to new inhabitants using the empty locations and containers). That is why there are several ways through any particular situation.

The game is not easy, not if you are actually role playing a character concept. That is why there have been various threads already where people have stated that the game is extremely punishing. It is... as long as you role play and do not simply attempt to exploit mechanics and min-max characters by having them do things that such a character would not do. Of course, you can MAKE the game easy by ignoring role play and min-maxing, but that is the fault of the player, not the developer, because the goal of the game is to allow and support role play.

I'm afraid, that is up for debate.

Too many necessary things are extra perks. I was thinking of doing a rebuild but was looking at my perks for what I would sacrifice and there's not much room. True I'm fairly op and can do as I want. For weapons you need to pick one and then everything else is pitiful by comparison. handguns dont have range, auto's run out of ammo so you're stuck with this is a riflemans game. I'm commando now and it's doable. Doubt I'll completely run out of ammo but now my snipers aren't competitive and handguns have to be full auto meaning the alien and plasma pistols are out.

Sneak is mandatory who doesn't sneak. Crafting and locks/ hacking are almost mandatory but you could just do without and be fine. I didn't get armor at first. it can wait but you're going to want to mod PA. I can do without scrapping. I dont know how anyone survives without chems. Basic jet is probably enough when you need it. I did allow myself explosives just for fun but am entirely lacking charisma or local leader. I dont find lone wanderer or admantium too nec, Takes all my time to get to know my companions even if Strong won't sneak at all.

Can't sacrifice agility. I don't like vats much but seems necessary when you're being rushed quickly by multiple people. If you put points into some gun method they will become uber strong like melee maybe not as much from the sound of it but significantly better with mods and perks. I didn't get a gun style perk for a long time but made a big difference when i did.

no is not, i dont care if u think isnt deep as other RPG, but Fallout 4 enter on the definition of RPG.

Exactly.

The restrictive nature of the game is the actual point. I believe the design of the game was Bethesda's attempt to force specialization on the player. Instead of being able to do everything early in the game, players now must choose a playstyle with distinct strengths and weaknesses. In order to gain something, you must lose something as well. One can be great at shooting, but may have to sacrifice charisma in the process. One can become good at persuasion, but miss out on combat abilities. If one wants to become a jack of all trades, they can but it will take much time to come to that goal.

I actually like the restrictive design. It makes decision making for my character builds feel more important. I already have three different characters with their own strengths and shortcomings. There are some things I can do only with one character and some that I can do only with another. To me, this actually boosts replay value as it encourages me to create multiple characters to really get the absolute complete picture of the game.

It may seem frustrating to be limited in certain ways, but that does not stop anyone from completing the game. Features like settlement building may be fun, but it is not necessary to fully enjoy the game.

These are all your choices, op. You choose to use certain weapons and take certain perks and play a certain way. If you do feel "pidgeonholed" that's on you, nobody else... certainly not Bethesda.

Know what? It just sounds to me like this isn't the game for you. Nothing wrong with that.

Sorry op but people will defend Bethesda's refusal to balance their games properly to the death on these forums. Balancing the game is up to you, using difficulty level and gear/perk choices. Very easy to be gimped or stupidly overpowered, the difficulty system in their games is the way it is so you can slap a fix on it for a while before you start effortlessly blowing everything up again, pretty much exactly like what Blizzard did with Diablo 3. I'd wait for mods, people will correct this like they have in every other one of Bethesda's RPGs.

Role-playing is not a method to gimp yourself, it's a way to customize your playstyle. You don't "role-play difficulty", you self-balance. When you have to self-balance, that means it wasn't balanced. It applies to single-player games just as much as multi-player games.

The respawning supplies are ok. Getting so many supplies in one go, so that you don't ever have to return, is not. There's no point to improving your bartering if just selling even meager amounts of loot gets you enough caps to live off of for every character. There's no point in melee if the perk doesn't even work, and it pales in comparison to unarmed.

My Intelligence is at 1 and all my weapons are fully modded out. You can remove the mods from weapons you find or buy and put them on your Uniques and Legendaries, even if you don't have the perks necessary to craft the mods yourself.

EDIT: Also, you can spend perk points on your SPECIAL stats if you really feel like certain perks are necessary.

Um right. I happen to love this series and this game, but thanks.

In the far off future, Bethesda will release fallout 7, featuring a single scene where you get buggered by a Deathclaw in spandex until you slot 10 int which will trigger the game to start.

"Geez op, you were expecting something more? This game must not be for you."

Fair point. The mod scavenging stuff can be a useful bypass to crafting it directly, although imo, a distinct increase in organizational hassle.

Why are you saying no to me? You're agreeing with me.

My intention was to play a 1 int character. But there's just so much locked behind int that it's really crippling to do so in terms of experiencing the full game. It's not crippling in terms of damage, it's just a disproportionate amount of content locked/gated behind one particular stat.

• int3: gun nut, required for crafting gun mods (and some settlement crafts)
• int4: hacker, access gate
• int6: science, required for crafting weapons/armor mods (and some settlement crafts)

int2: medic, int7: chemist, int9: nuclear physicist are pretty strong too, but at least aren't -required- to do anything.

(int1, int5, and int10 seem utterly ignorable)

Then the innate always-on boosted xp you get from statting int...

The only other gates of a similar nature are Str3 + Str4 for armor + melee crafting mods, and Pcp4 for lockpicking. But putting points into either of those, even if it goes against what you want to build your character as, doesn't adversely affect your build like putting points into Int does when you're Luck-based with Idiot Savant.

I'm not looking to specifically min-max, I just included my thought process behind ending up where I did. Guns were terribly unfun and so I ended up with melee. I'm enjoying melee, just not the "use same weapon with no viable upgrades so far for 30 levels" part of it. I don't see how picking melee is an invalid choice as a character concept. But choosing a build or character background or whatever doesn't mean that you also -don't- attempt to min-max. Bethesda gave us a sandbox, and I don't understand why you're trying to insinuate their intentions to be anything other than what was expressly provided.

Pretty much this.

Although I haven't had that problem with selling loot yet - It seems to sell for so little, 20-50 caps ea, that I don't bother picking up a lot of it. Because food + basic supplies are so abundantly available I've not needed to buy any from npcs, and so my caps are usually just spent on armor upgrades, which I don't even really feel a dire need for.

You are not summing this up for the OP, this is your summary....

I am with OP on this one......the game does force you into some really boring playstyles........and this is happening due to lack of a comprehensive skill system that became the trademark of the original Fallout games.........