It's not just that. How would combat work? In the first two games it was turn based. Then Tactics came along... ever tried playing that in real time? An absolute cluster is what it is.. so you'd have to redesign combat specifically for this isometric camera mode. Turn based combat is great, but also removes many variables and situations, because every move is well thought out and planned. It's more than just lifting the camera up high.

Have you ever played PC versions of video games that let you switch from First Person View (FPS) to Real Time Strategy (RTS) view?

I would have to really rack my brain to think of one, as I'm sure I have. DA:I is the most recent one I can think of, because it has a tactical mode when you zoom out and becomes a top down view. Normally it uses a tight over the shoulder, third person perspective. I remember hardly anyone ever used that mode, and those that do, are able to do so because the game has an auto lock system. But in Fallout 4 you need to manually aim. So are you suggesting that people need to switch view modes for combat, and constantly go back and forth?

I see you ignore that this kind of change isn't just a camera change. It would involve redesigning all the interiors and much of the exterior world to work with the camera change, as many people have pointed out.

I have made sure the clippings through the roofs and walls for buildings don't happen in this cinematic view I made for Crysis.

I'm 100% sure Bethesda Game Studios can do a even better job than I can. For Isometric View in Fallout 4.

Lol at:

-People who, like Ballowers, don't know how games work.

-Putting a 'No' option in the poll and getting upset people used it because it's not what he wanted to hear.

-Bonus lol: "I programmed a video game camera angle"

Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.

I know how video games work.

I'm not mad that people are voting no, but yes I am upset.

I will stand by my words. I don't care what you think.

Lots of reasons this wouldn't work, but I do love seeing these screenshots. Very cool!

I don't think that Bethesda should waste time and resources on adding an Isometric viewpoint in a patch. There's a lot more to it than just pulling the camera back; you have to figure out angles, how to handle buildings with roofs or multiple floors, narrow areas where you can't just pull back the camera etc.

You ask why someone would say no to "patching" the game and optimizing for a UX the game was never intended. I'm challenging you to support the same thing: convert the entire game experience (not just dialog) into a text based adventure. "As an option"

So, I voted "Don't Care." If Bethesda wanted to do this, then I wouldn't stop them. But I probably wouldn't play with it, and I also think it would be an enormous venture on their part.

For starters, as a gamer that primarily plays turn-based games it's been a pretty good development cycle for me. On the rare occasion when I'm not playing Fallout 4, I've still got Dead State, Massive Chalice, Wasteland 2, Blood Bowl 2, and X-Com 2 on the horizon (that's a lot of "2s" come to think of it.) And that's just off the top of my head. It's been a long time coming, but I've got more turn-based games on my backlog than I have free time to play them. I've got plenty of other games that are scratching that itch for me, basically. What I like about Bethesda's games are their impressive vistas and level design, which are meant to be experienced in a different manner.

And as has been said, there are numerous hurdles to overcome with something like this and actually making it a view mode you'd be able to play the game in.

To start with, the controls aren't set up for this. Moving around with an anolog stick or keyboard I could see, sure. But Fallout 4 implements real-time combat - you would need very precise movement controls to get your character even aiming at the enemies. The other issue is that you can't aim from a top-down view like the game originally intended. How would I target specific body parts in real-time from this view? I can't use my mouse or right stick to aim the camera after all. Possibly you could link your aiming to those functions, but it would still be imprecise.

Even using VATS for combat, you'd have to completely rework the UI and how you navigate. (If I'm looking down on all my enemies, then all their body parts and the selection of them would just stack on top of each other.)

Getting this camera to work in inside locations would mean reworking all of the occlusion settings for all the objects (so that you could see through the ceilings of buildings and likely even a lot of walls.) And remember that many areas are multi-leveled, which only complicates things. And looting and scavenging becomes a nightmare. Just zooming in really close so you can actually see those pencils on the table doesn't come close to solving this issue. What happens when I come across a shelf? Or that safe hidden under the bed? Also, how you position the on-screen cursor would need to be redesigned, so that you could still precisely target all these different items.

And the level designs have not been set up for this view, either. Top-down cameras don't do multi-leveled areas all that well. I would not want to try to navigate a spiral staircase or fire escape in that view, while controlling my character using controls meant for a totally different view.

And even when outside, exploration becomes problematic. Again with the level design - Bethesda's games are designed for you to be seeing them from a certain angle. I'm surely not the only one who will scan the horizon and pick out potentially interesting places - you would miss those in a top-down view or hope to just stumble across them. (Like waling around at night and seeing a light glowing off to one side of the path that leads you to investigate it. You just don't see that if you're in a top-down view.)

Those are just issues off the top of my head. By the time you would "patch" in something like this, you've essentially designed an entirely different game.

That said, this is exactly why I like that Bethesda supports modding. Because it sounds like a great idea for someone to further extend with modding (and of course the idea itself comes from a modder.) Maybe he'll continue working on and tweaking this, and I'd be interested in seeing if it goes any further than that. I think it's a neat idea, but I'm not going to be bothered if Bethesda doesn't take time to patch this or anything.

Oh geez this thread is a mess.

The reality of the situation is that even if the entire FO4 community cried out as one for an isometric-style view, Bethesda could not make it happen. Or, rather, any implementation (by Bethesda) would require a complete recode of the game from the ground up.

Based on what I personally know about how Bethesda makes their games, there are several immediate problems that come to mind:

1. Multiple levels in buildings.

2. Combat being exclusively designed around a real-time viewpoint.

3. The fact that the world is not designed for top-down exploration.

All of these things could, potentially, be worked around given enough time and effort. But Bethesda simply won't do it. For them to go through all this effort of recoding, QA, and making sure everything worked would almost literally be forcing them to make another game. Now, I can see several ways that modders could make this work. But it would be a major, major undertaking that would be fraught with bugs and it would likely end up as a very half-way implementation.

Thank you nu_clear_day and Reneer for the explanations you two explained stuff better than I can.

For people who enjoy "Faked" Isometric View or wished Fallout 4 had it. Here's more pictures for your enjoyment.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=188466419&postcount=11525

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=188466596&postcount=11526

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=188489438&postcount=11538

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=188489564&postcount=11539

I enjoy a lot looking at these screenshots. Anyone else other than me enjoy looking at them?

It's an indifferent change if the gameplay doesn't change accordingly when switching the perspective.

It's not impossible to do, though. Dungeon Keeper ('97) is the oldest game that I can remember off hand that had high up point'n click gameplay and the possibility to possess a creature and then move with him in first person.

Doing something like this to the existing game would take so much reworking it would be better to just make another game. FO4 is a done deal. If there is interest in this kind of game it should be a spinoff at this point, maybe a $20 downloadable "indie" release.

Any attempt to redo FO4 like this would be an awkward. compromised mess.

If I had access to the full Source Code to the Creation Engine and Fallout 4, like I do for Unreal Engine 4. I would most definitely try to make a Isometric View for Fallout 4.

See how much I can do like I do in Cry Engine 2, Cry Engine 3, Crysis, Unreal Development Kit (UDK), and Unreal Engine 4.

Dude go for it- and sign me up for a copy/download!

Sad but true

I have never been able to get into games with that isometric camera. It feels like I'm watching an ant farm of little generic and faceless ants. I need to be able to clearly see the character's faces and expressions, I need to be able to change the camera angle too and look around at will like you're able to in real life and I don't want to be always forced into staring at the ground, never straight ahead or at the sky. It feels oppressive and small to me. I also hate games where I have to click to move. Give me arrow keys, wasd, or a controller any day.

That being said, I voted "I don't care." I would never want or use this option but I know some people love it.

Not really. After using VATs, do you sit around and allow your enemies to make a set number of actions?

The screen shots looked cool. The game would have great graphics for an isometric game. But Bethesda should not spend their time on making an isometric camera angle that few will use when they could be making bug fixes that everyone needs and more content via DLCs that many will buy.

Bellowers100, all I can say is give up on the thread because it's unreasonable to ask Bethesda to give you what you want and you're not going to get a lot of supporters. Wait for the tools to be released and make the mod yourself, then see how well it works out.

"Making a new camera angle" is not difficult to do, as this person has shown. Implementing a radically different camera angle, into a game that was designed from day one for a first-person camera, *IS* difficult to do. How do you adapt it for interior areas? How do you adapt it for combat? How do you adapt it for multi-floor structures?

The work they'd have to do to implement this, is non-trivial to say the least. FPS combat would need to be torn out, and a completely new combat system worked in, balanced, playtested, and integrated into the UI. Hundreds of 3D assets that have been made for a tight first-person view, would have to be altered or removed, to accommodate the new camera placement - or you'd have the camera clipping through walls, being obscured by things, and so on.

And say you put in the months of work to essentially re-build your game for this purpose (which will 100% never happen)... what have you added to the experience? When you grapple with the months your team spent doing this, was it worth it? Was it time and manpower well spent, instead of say, patching the game, working on DLC, or even getting the next gamesas project underway?

Now, they could certainly design Fallout 5 with something like this in mind, but I wouldn't hold my breath. It would be a monumental departure for a studio that has traditionally made first-person RPGs, operates with a small-ish team, and tends to share their tech between games. And that's just the tip of the iceberg as far as reasons why Bethesda wouldn't go back to an isometric view, even as an option.