Does anyone else feel rather cheated that the Fallout 3 schism between the west and east coast was all but retconned away?

Granted, most people say (and I agree) the Pride were somewhat the designated 'good guy' in Fallout 3 and that needed some more nuance but just reversing the idea between games makes much of what the player did in Fallout 3 feel totally invalidated. Not to mention that the Brotherhood's continuing civil war would have made a great addition to this story. Even if this was always the plan the fact it happens so matter-of-factly and that there are no hangovers or holdouts, and that the transition back was so anticlimactically simple cheapens a number of characters in FO3; Three Dog, Madison Li, Star Paladin Cross, the Lyons' and most of those dedicated to Project Purity to name but a few.

If the Brotherhood of the East Coast had ramped up opperations, become more proactive outside of their homeland? Become slightly more morally ambiguous in an attempt to protect what they'd struggled and died for en masse? I get it, but the notion they could just reunite like that off screen and not have any lingering issues? Not impressed.

It is still there, at least to some extent. The west BoS is still VERY Xenophobic, very rarely, if ever allowing a wastelander to join, they also have no issue going in and just taking whatever they want, the older fallout games have examples where they nearly kill, or outright kill people, just for having a laser pistol. Maxston's are not Xenophobic at all, and DO care about the wastelanders, outright protecting them in many cases, they also clearly do not have the same attitude toward hoarding tech. They still hoard tech, but if it is already owned by someone, the either do not care, or try and trade for it, unless it is something SERIOUSLY dangerous.

Also, the ORiginal schism was between the west and mid-west brotherhood. the BoS seen/played in Tactics basically through the codex away, and had Super mutants, ghouls, JOIN their cause, and basically act as full-on protectors and guardians of the Mid-west.

Killing farmers for crops and killing ghouls for no reason is protecting them? O:

you never kill farmers, and they never kill any non-feral ghouls on-screen or even talk about it. At this point, they HAVE to know about Goodneighbor, but it is NEVER mentioned by anyone in the BoS.

Obtain the crops by any means necessary @_@

When you get it through a dialogue check they speak like they had no choice. And it's pretty well known they're on a non-human extermination mission. And if you consider synths people, they're even worse about those.

Uh, yeah, you are totally asked to intimidate and murder the locals, not to mention that supplying them with a heavy nuclear arsenal? They're fanatics to an individual.

Actually, that's not quite right. If you read the Brotherhood terminals on the Prydwen, you'll find out that Maxson actually represents a regression in the Brotherhood's values to the old-style xenophobia and tech hoarding. When Elder Lyons died, his successors were less competent and led only very short terms before Maxson, whose war on the Institute and rejection of Lyons' dedication to helping the Wasteland actually caused the Brotherhood Outcasts to rejoin the ranks. This may be a result of Sarah Lyons' death in combat - Maxson did have a crush on her when he was younger. Shame - he was such a nice kid.

Not quite to an individual. Scribe Haylen is pretty nice. There are a few holdouts who are more open-minded, more like the Lyons Brotherhood, but they're vastly outnumbered by the Maxson loyalists. What I REALLY want is DLC that lets you side with the Brotherhood a different way - by returning to Lyons' benevolent mission and turning them away from their path of genocidal fanaticism again. With or without Elder Maxson in the picture.

Okay, I'll agree on Scribe Haylen and a handful of others. It still feels like gamesas were just overcorrecting a rather too squeaky-clean FO3 Brotherhood presence though.

I am disappointed that they gave the Brotherhood a slate-wiping return to full-on old form. I mean, they could have just made the Outcasts a more prominent force and kept the Lyons chapter's ideals at least active to some degree. But I suppose it may be partly because the game is meant to present morally ambiguous choices as much as possible.

I'm sure that's part of why they did it but there are definitely better ways it could have been done.

It is mentioned that a fraction of BOS members deserted in protest due to Maxson's reforms, mabye a DLC involving them.

I definitely want this. Lyons loyalists forming a splinter group in DLC - that you can potentially lead to take back the Brotherhood of Steel itself, maybe. I'd play the hell out of THAT.

Think the argument with fallout 4 is just a refined version of the multiple faction system in new vegas;

Every faction thinks theyre the goodguys and what they do - however grim iit may be to someone else - is totally justified to them.

In DC - in actual fact - it was eitherbrotherhood or Enclave. Infact, mentions in fallout 4 make it seem asif once the brotherhood annexed the enclaves resources after their war, they became more like them in the sence they were dictatorful in taking high-tec off wastelanders.

They took rivet cities nuclear power supply to power their airship which maxon intended to use in a war against yet another faction..

Won't be right without my Lone Wanderer leading the pack though. He stayed with the BoS and Sarah after Broken Steel, and he would definately be in that splinter group.

I always recommend bringing Danse along to sample the BoS ideology.

He *hates* it when you kill the farmers, and loves it when you can convince them to donate their crops in tribute to the BoS. Danse is what the BoS would consider the ideal soldier.

Oh man. Have the Wanderer show up as the leader of the new Brotherhood Outcasts. Sarah and Elder Lyons may both be dead, but the Lyons' Pride could damned well live on with the LW in charge - if names are an issue, make it a pseudonym.

And THEN you help 'em retake the Brotherhood, and choose which of you gets to be Elder with a persuade tree. It would be awesome.

On another note, I just remembered - as far as I know, the Fallout 1 Brotherhood of Steel was actually erring toward the side of benevolent, enough that the Vault Dweller canonically became their ally. Not sure what happened in the interim, but the Steelbros haven't always been entirely made up of xenophobic, tech-vulture [censored]s. They weren't as nice as Lyons, but there is something there that his ideals could have come from.