Boobs allowed, trees are not? A rant about static collection

Post » Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:57 am

Hello dear users,



in my journey trying to figure how to retexture trees, and respectively their LOD, I've made an interesting find. As some of you know, there is a .ini tweak that will allow to scrap any stuff in the game world...



bUseCombinedObjects=0 (do not use this tweak, it will entirely mess up the game)



...basically what it does, is "degrouping" any static forms that are grouped together, like trees, bushes, buildings and other forms. Unfortunately grouping ultimatively results in any single tree model in game uneditable, with the exception of those not put into groups, or more familiary named "static collection". Such tress are existant, f.e., in Sanctuary or any of the bigger settlements, because you'll need to be capable of scraping them. Let me show you a visual example...



http://imgur.com/AMMWxob



...the group of trees you see in the screenshot, can't be scraqed, because it is a group of trees, put together in a static collection. However, in return, for users that make all sorts of "scrap" mods, it should be interesting for you, that you can actually make those scrap mods without creating bugs, by simply allowing those static collections to be scraqed (if you find a way to add them to useable formlists), rather then the single statics itself. To my chagrin, anyone every planing to edit the trees will not be so lucky, because as you can see here...



http://imgur.com/iO2luay



...all grouped tree models, are inside a single .nif file, that for now can't be accessed with Nifskope Alpha (resulting in crash), and also can't be edited with plugins, as the model will still override any change you've made in the static collection. So in return this means, you can not, in any single way, mod those trees, even with official tools, without reediting every single instance of static collection model related to trees. Which ultimatively is going to be a huge pita.



I don't necessarily have a problem with this, because I can life with the changes to trees I've made for my own game, by swapping the material files. But I am indeed very curious, why you would put such a huge amount of restrictions on people trying to modifie the enviroment, and at the same time not scotch any effort to make nvde body models? I understand that for ~50% of human population boobs are much more important then trees, but I really thought I'd deal with mature people over at Beth? Given that the Nexus is already flooded by hordes of underaged "modders" firing out "moist dreams", visualy reinforced by faked screenshots, which appearantly never going to look as good ingame, I really find it underwhelming how much convenience you grant people to visually modifie the wasteland.



Please tell me it's because you are planing a seasonal DLC, or I will lose any confidence I'm actually dealing with mature persons over at Beth... :brokencomputer:

User avatar
Kaley X
 
Posts: 3372
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:46 pm

Post » Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:53 am

...I fail to see the connection between these two things here :huh:

Trees are made differently, character models are not. I doubt there's any intent there.
User avatar
Kelly Upshall
 
Posts: 3475
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:26 pm

Post » Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:33 pm

I wonder, if Groot continues to be popular in the movies, there may yet be a tree editor capability in the game yet.... :D

User avatar
Vera Maslar
 
Posts: 3468
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:32 pm

Post » Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:38 am

Nothing Bethesda did to collections was to make life harder for modders. Nifscope will eventually be able to handle static collections - just be patient. Really bad anology, by the way.
User avatar
Darren Chandler
 
Posts: 3361
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 9:03 am

Post » Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:11 pm


Yeah it's evil, evil Bethesda that hate tree moddevs espescially. They don't get support because no one ever should be allowed to edit trees.



At least thats what I read from your posting.



That the reason is a lot simpler and it's that way because of optimisation and also how the lod and speedtree (or other middleware) manages tree doesn't come in mind, doesn't it?

User avatar
Katy Hogben
 
Posts: 3457
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:20 am

Post » Fri Jan 15, 2016 2:26 am

id choose boobs over trees anyday :foodndrink:

User avatar
Karen anwyn Green
 
Posts: 3448
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:26 pm

Post » Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:32 pm

Man, either I'm to stupid to transport sarcasm, or you fail to see the point I've made. Why would I not understand that static collections are made for performance reasons? It's probably because evil, evil sesom never taught me on technical background of Bethesda games... :yawn:

User avatar
vicki kitterman
 
Posts: 3494
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 11:58 am

Post » Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:57 pm


I actually doubt that the combined tree nif is a SCOL and meant to be the same as we know from FO3. SCOLs are terrible performance stealers (combined meshes with vertices that aren't even shown, bad, bad idea...).

User avatar
Krystal Wilson
 
Posts: 3450
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:40 am

Post » Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:24 pm

They are exactly that same as in FO3 minus nif format differences of course. Following this logic Beth started to hate tree huggers back in 2008...

User avatar
cutiecute
 
Posts: 3432
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:51 am

Post » Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:53 am

I'm confused as to how this goes from "I found this problem with grouped objects that's going to present modding issues", to, " why did Beth intentionally make the tree grouping screw over modders but let Boobs be possible?"



Does the OP seriously think the grouping works the way it does to intentionally make tree modding more difficult? (I'll refrain from asking the Boobie counter to this question).

User avatar
John Moore
 
Posts: 3294
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2007 8:18 am

Post » Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:05 pm

Goes without saying..... :hubbahubba:

User avatar
tannis
 
Posts: 3446
Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:21 pm

Post » Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:25 pm

lol

User avatar
ILy- Forver
 
Posts: 3459
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:18 am

Post » Fri Jan 15, 2016 12:54 am


Well, I think they are closely related.



First, there are boobs. Then, after that, there is wood.

User avatar
Tyler F
 
Posts: 3420
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:07 pm

Post » Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:00 pm

Yeah, I'm going to unifie best of both worlds. I'm going to make a boob tree. Imagine the immersion when boobs are swinging in the wind. I'm probably also going to add a moaning sound of japanese porm celebreties, just for immersion.

User avatar
Adriana Lenzo
 
Posts: 3446
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:32 am

Post » Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:21 am


If anyone can pull that off Mofakin its you...... :rock:

User avatar
cassy
 
Posts: 3368
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:57 am


Return to Fallout 4