The closest thing to innocents the BoS kills are the synths. I played the entirety of the BoS main quest and they did NOT have any innocent people getting killed so you can just stop with that bad point. The only case would be Teagan's resource gathering quest and if you killed people that is solely on you and you alone. There are four options to pick and if you choose the violent one that is 100% on you, not the BoS. The BoS doesn't order their soldiers to kill innocent people.

I don't really see how being rendered effectively extinct as a civilisation and race (in their eyes) is going to endear the wastelanders to any remaining Enclave personnel. Like seriously, people think of the Enclave like the Brotherhood when they aren't. The Enclave considers themselves a sovereign nation, the United States of America, that they are working to restore and of themselves as a separate race to literally everyone else.

If something came along and destroyed your entire way of life do you really think that would soften your edges? Particularly when it was done by the very people you were told were the enemy (aka everyone outside of the Enclave).


It really wasn't like that at-all. They are obviously lying to you if you've played Fallout 2. Enclave patrols literally quote a law which obliges them to kill you and they certainly don't act sad about it.

Presumably they know admitting their compliance and support of mass genocide, purely done to make their lives easier, isn't going to win them any friends. Hell if they "were" being sincere, which I don't believe that they were it actually makes the remnants looks like completely amoral sociopaths rather than good people.

The Project, you know the genocidal plan to exterminate everyone else, was not a secret but was in-fact considered to be their "salvation". Judah Kreger saying "The leadership was ruthless but we just wanted to civilise things" is a lie, straight-up.

Depending on your actions Arcade is either back with Followers or on the run from the NCR. Not to mention he showed no interest in bringing the Enclave back but wanted them to fight on the good side in a final battle.

I was surprised there was no Enclave presences in Commonwealth. Maybe an Enclave dlc that relates to going to one of their secret falicities that is believed to be shutdown at this point since Fallout 3 event 10 years ago.

I'm not knocking the Britherhood. The brotherhood in Fallout 4 feels more true to the original brotherhood and the brotherhood in tactics and I like it. I'm just pointing out that both the brotherhood and the enclave are very similar in the fact that they are unmoved from their goals and the willingness to do some unsavory actions to achieve their goals.


Yes, the violent action is up to you with the farmers, but it is condoned within the brotherhood. You are told right away that it is an acceptable action.


I've yet to see anything nessesarily bad about the Railroad other than a misguided belief to care more for non humans than humans, and yet they are on the chopping block.


After reading a certain FEV scientists terminal it seems he left his job over guilt and not wanting to carry it on any more. Certainly someone with a moral compass, yet he is also on the chopping block because he is, different.


Finally it may change as I get further along, I've read what I've could in CIT, I read about two people who have been replaced, but have yet to see any real evil other than apathy for the surface.


I'm not saying the Brotherhood is evil, but for my non bad playthrough I feel like I'm making a fair amount of rough choices.


Let me also caveat that by saying I'm not against it and find most of it well written with the exception of one particularly rediculous quest that I feel would have been better had they been the non variety and you had the option to shoot them, tell on them and have them sent to a collection camp, or let it be and provide X amount of food so they no longer had to steal from the steel.

New Vegas mentioned a Enclave research facility in the Chicago area. Nothing was said about its size/strength. It could be anywhere from a small two person underground bunker to a facility larger than the oil rig, Navarro and Raven Rock all put together and enough troops to say, "Get lost" when the Master's Army comes a calling.

As for resurrecting the Enclave... Well, it just takes the proper breeding program. Have an Institute scientist marry a Gunner Brigadier and their children would be pure Enclave.

Actually it probably wouldn't. ED-E, judging by it's logs, wasn't even repaired at Chicago outpost but rather found left for dead, by some family.

The Enclave is a culture and a society, having two people be "pure human" (which btw the Institute admit that they aren't) wouldn't make someone Enclave. Arcade Gannon was born by two Enclave parents but is not Enclave.

It's not condoned, it's covered up. Not exactly a challenge for Teagan to cover it up as a raider, gunner, institute or super mutant attack. So for all we know the only people we know that knows the village was attacked is the Sole Survivor and Teagan. Again, it's entirely on you, not the BoS.

The BoS, like every army and faction, doesn't have 24/7 complete surveillance on it's soldiers. The BoS doesn't make raids on settlements. YOU, yes you, MADE THE CHOICE to attack the settlement instead of solving it peacefully. I know it's easier to push the blame on others then take credibility for your own actions but the BoS is not responsible for the destruction of that settlement, you are. Same goes for irl comparisons, if a soldier kills innocents or does something bad to non-combatants it's on that soldier even if said soldier goes unpunished. It's not the faction or nation that is responsible but the soldier themselves.

YOU are responsible, you had other options to pick but YOU picked the option to kill everyone. No one is to blame but you are. Maxson doesn't send patrols out to attack settlements, BoS don't attack settlements, only one member attacks settlements and that's you if you choose to. So sorry but your lousy argument is not accurate. The BoS doesn't kill innocents, you killed innocents.

NO.

Leave the Enclave dead where they belong.

Eh, I'm just thinking about how to re-introduce the faction without it being cannon fodder. Autumn had the right idea, and I would have sided with him if the game let me, and if he was removed from his "designated villain categorization".

And having a new incarnation of the Enclave founded by someone like Arcade(or Whitley), as an inherently good/reasonable person who happens to exist in a faction of with a lot of dubious history------steering it in a new direction.

Plus, the Midwest as a whole is filled with a lot of unknowns, and Chicago seems like a great place to reintroduce the Enclave, with the previous story hooks and name drops in other games. The Legion controls everything east of the Colorado to Denver, and the Midwestern Empire from Tactics borders that. Maybe after Tactics they withdrew their forces from Chicago and consolidated their rebuilding efforts further west. Maybe that's when the Enclave set up shop? And 90 years would be more than enough time for the Enclave to build something great out of that city.

The Enclave are not dead. Just like the brotherhood, Enclave have a number of different chapters all around the United States., or at-least they did in the old Fallouts.

I didn't choose to kill them which is why I don't know that Teagan covers it up. You also ignored my other arguments (the railroad, said FEV scientist, and the institute), while also ignoring my central thesis which isn't that the brotherhood is evil, but shares a similarity in that the end justifies the means, regardless of how unsavory the means are. I'm not saying the brotherhood is evil (I wouldn't really classify the enclave as evil either).


Finally I feel like you may perceive that I am attacking you over this based on the caps and time of your last post. I am certainly not, nor am I attacking your stance on the brotherhood not being evil.

BoS don't attack innocent people.

I think this an issue of perception. If you don't do the other playthroughs that information isn't available to the player. Also again you aren't following my thesis here, or you are deliberately ingnoring it. Either way I'm feeling that agreeing to disagree is the best course of action here.

The Brotherhood launched an unprovoked attack, along with the Institute, on Bunker Hill and the native population + Railroad defending that area.

Some time later they launched a second unprovoked attack on the Railroad's home base.

Yeah, they very well do attack innocent people. I get debating ambiguities, but on two separate occasions the Brotherhood launched unprovoked attacks on factions native to the Commonwealth. They're kind of evil.

(The fact that Maxson tolerates vermin like Kells and Teagan yet goes full Nazi with Danse shows how screwed up the Brotherhood is now)

BoS went in to destroy the Synth, the Railroad used the towns people as shields. Railroad is to blame for using the settlers as shields and getting them involved. Again, Railroad shot the first shot