Could the Enclave be brought back by Bethesda? Of course.

Should the Enclave be brought back? No.

For pete's sakes lets not turn The Enclave into a Team Rocket type villain. Coming back every Saturday morning with a new dastardly scheme to take over the world.

The funny thing is that this can be applied to you as well. Only that you're twisting the lore with your own silly interpretation saying they're very much alive based on blowing one single line out of proportion (a line I would like a source on as well as to where that was said by Lyons), when there is far more evidence throughout the events of the games and lore that they're in a state that is either dead or there are so few that remain that they're hardly a faction.

The thing could be like a handful of enclave soldiers arrive and they emit a distress signal . You find them , they tell you their stories and ask you to help them retake a bunker . You discuss with their leader and you he explains you of a plan to rebuild the enclave and the US state .

You speak with the various faction leaders / your advisers ( if you're the institute's Director or minutemen's General) about this . Either you convince to help you , or get brushed off . Now you would start by building a president ( similar to John Henry Eden) find historical documents , get eyebots to spread propaganda , find power armor and build your forces. As you do this a group of *insert generic anti-enclave group name* gets in , with the help of the factions which leaders you couldn't convince and you do something about it .

Sounds pretty good to me , eh ?

You could :

• Build Training facilities near settlements


• Discover and rebuild a military base


• Get technology by leading salvage missions outside the commonwealth.


• Get in contact with remnants

He says it after Broken Steel when you ask him if the Enclave is dead.

Actually Cider, you need to replay the game...you obviously missed some conversations. BoS members make it perfectly clear that Super Mutants, Synths, and all ghouls are crimes against nature and should be eradicated.

In FO3, the Enclave were actively cleansing all above ground humans and mutants, on the basis that the Wastelanders were tainted. In FO4, the BoS are cleansing the obvious mutants - Super Mutants and Feral Ghouls, and Synths; but that doesn't mean that they will not start on the sentient ghouls at some point.

As the BoS in FO4 are actively recruiting from the population, it's noteworthy that there is not one ghoul who is a member of the BoS.

As I said, it's only a matter of degree to which the views differ...

Edit:

I think that the confusion comes in for a lot of people in the way the game works. Back in FO3, a lot of people wanted to join the 'Enclave' faction, but it wasn't possible...but in FO4, they are provided the opportunity to join a fascist faction with goals of ethnic cleansing and securing and holding onto control of an area to protect their own interests, but because they were 'the good guys' back in FO3 many people are overlooking their negatives and obvious extremist agenda.

Sure, there's references to 'freeing the Commonwealth', and 'helping the people', but that's spin...in reality, they don't do anything much.

Yikes. Do you have a selective memory, or what? Do you think that Willow is incapable of discerning the difference between intentional shooting at people outside Underworld, and the occasional stray gunfire? "Why is that guy in power armor aiming this way when the Supermutants are over there?" The battlefield was clearly aligned perpendicular to the angle of fire that would hit the Museum of History.

Lyons group was also actively looking for resources to repair Liberty Prime and to complete Project Purity. It is because he decided to help others that he lacked the manpower to aggressively search for lost tech. It wasn't because he didn't want to keep searching. But it is because of that decision to help others that Lyons could speak for ONLY his chapter of BoS. The rest of the BoS was apparently adhering to the BoS's core principles (as exemplified by the Outcasts).

Going into FO3, we the players of FO2, knew the Enclave were Bad Guys. But players entirely new to FO were given the impression for at least half the game that the Enclave were committed to rebuilding the USA -- a totally worthy and honorable goal. And in point of fact, after the Oil Rig blew and that core leadership was incinerated, the Enclave could have had a change of heart. Much like Lyons and his BoS chapter. The Enclave leaders could have "seen the light"; it was a possibility just as likely as Lyons' change of focus.

Hmm. Looking at Real Life, it seems to me that your insistence that the Enclave is completely kaput is like suggesting that because Osama and his senior lieutenants were killed, Al-Qaeda was completely kaput. It didn't work that way in Real Life; why should it work that way in FO? Because "it's just a game"?

No I don't have a selective memory and yes she says they fire pot shots. I know this may be an astounding thought to you but not all bullets go directly at their target and not all soldiers have a perfect 100% HD clarity view of the battlefield, a shadow on the horizon can be seen as an enemy or an unknown figure, in fact such things have actually lead to friendly fire because again, soldiers don't have perfect clarity on a battlefield. Willow herself disproves the notion the BoS are "attacking" ghouls, it's nothing but a stray bullet which again happen in active warzones. Of course the blame shouldn't fall on Willow, she forgot to say "GHOUL" while BoS, Talon and super mutants were duking it out in an active warzone because as we all know it IS like a bunch of teenagers playing street hockey.

"Actively looking" ONE scribe sends you out to find cameras. That's it and that's after the Enclave is dealt with. He is undermanned because of his ideal that he can't help people AND look for tech. Again, the outcasts left because Lyons abandoned the mission to find tech not because he was helping people. This is further proven by the fact that Maxson, who does both look for tech AND protect people, managed to fix the schism by simply making tech alongside helping people a goal.

and yes, the enclave were doing the noble goal of rebuilding America by...poisoning the water with FEV, killing wastelanders off and testing how durable ghouls are with fire by how else capturing them, holding them prisoner and then using a flamer to torch them. All three are in Fallout 3, such a noble goal indeed.

While I'm all for the Enclave being consider a terrorist organization that comparison is complete garbage. For one the Enclave doesn't have anyone to recruit from, Al-Qaeda still has support from anti-American forces in the middle east, the Enclave however has no support from any locals. The one support they did have was one old man that everyone thought was a fool.


Yes because the BoS totally marched into Underworld after Fallout 3 and just went to town slaughtering every ghoul they saw and goodneighbor? Completely wiped off the map when the BoS show up. Oh and let's forget that BoS patrols totally do attack non-hostile ghoul travelers and wasteland- oh wait what's that? They did none of that? Wow I hate to break it to you but your bad, 100% speculation post is not found anywhere because, yes that's right, you're wrong!

Funny how that works. No, the BoS in Fallout 4 make a note to say it's ferals only. There is no mission to attack non-hostile ghouls, BoS don't attack non-hostile ghouls, goodneighbor the town with the most ghouls doesn't even get a BoS presence so again, you're wrong. While there is prejudice (a common factor in a lot of human-controlled settlements and organizations) there is no open hostility towards non-hostile ghouls. AGAIN your straw grasping fails you, how surprising!

Now if you actually BOTHERED to pay attention you would soon realize, I know it's a hard thing, that the BoS only attack hostile people. No where do they say "Yea we're doing this to cleanse humanity" no, what they straight up say is "we're doing this to protect people from dangerous forces" which yes, ferals, super mutants, synths and raiders all fall under. Though of course if you actually travel around with non-hostile synths like Nick or non-hostile super mutants like Strong or non-hostile ghouls like Hancock your entire badly made point shows it's ignorance in the fact that SURPRISE BoS don't attack them.

A lot of factions don't have ghouls in them, hell even the followers of the apocalypse don't actually have any ghouls in their service (they had one mercenary but none of their doctors or workers were ghouls nor did they treat any ghouls in New Vegas.) so does that make the followers fascists or nazis? No. Same could be said with the Great Khans, the families of New Vegas, the Kings, the Railroad, the Institute, hell I can keep going and the only thing it'll get us? Humans have a prejudice against ghouls. Is that bad? Sure. Does that make them wasteland nazis? No.

Again, pay attention and stop trying to make really awfully made points that anyone who bothered to play the game and pay attention would instantly be able to call out as bullcrap.

You could meet some deserters , that believe the enclave to be about rebuilding the US with the help of the people . Some sort of goverment to rival the NCR

Yes, because organizations or even nations haven't been wiped out and scattered to the four winds before, never to reform again, right? Because THAT hasn't happened at all in history.

But clearly an insurgent group, which is constantly recruiting new members from the local population, is an adequate comparison to The Enclave.

You're a black-or-white kind of person, aren't you? "If it's not this one extreme, it's the other. There is no in-between."

Have you ever been in combat? Had people shooting at you with the actual intent of killing you and everyone near you? Do you know how to read a battlefield? Understand just what kind of intervening obstructions need to be avoided to make a bullet arrive at a given destination?

Do you understand prejudice? To believe in your bones that "those 'people'" are sub-human, so if any of them die for whatever reason, it's no Big Deal? So the BoS didn't do a "cleansing" of Underworld after defeating the Enclave. So that means that irrefutably, none of the BoS would even think of taking potshots at ghouls outside of Underworld? Using your rationale about the stray gunfire from an active battlefield, why do you think it is that Willow specifies that it is the BoS but NOT the Supermutants nor Talon Company taking potshots at non-feral ghouls? Could it possibly be that on several occasions she witnessed a BoS taking deliberate aim, but never saw a Supermutant or a Talon Company merc do anything similar?

Nawww. TOTALLY impossible. Just like everything else you disagree with.

Nope, I see the world in black, white and grey but Enclave only fit the black.

Have you been in combat? Have you been in a warzone? I may not have but I certainly do study the subject and I also study tactics. On the battlefield a shadow can be almost anything and to a frightened soldier it's more likely to see an enemy then a civilian or an animal.

The BoS do NO hostile actions against non-hostile ghouls is my point, the most the prejudice goes is not liking being around them that's it. You can grasp straws all you want but just because someone is prejudice doesn't mean they want to kill the person they don't like. The BoS didn't attack any non-hostile group of ghouls at all, your one point of them showing hostile action is ignoring the fact that said point was made by someone who sits outside of a subway terminal in an active war-zone.

You can grasp at as many straws you can to make your bad point just to make the BoS into some fascist group while ironically defending the actual wasteland nazis, the Enclave, but that won't change the fact that people have and will continue to prove you wrong.

Lt Andronicus,

Well said, I agree completely. Further I see no reason to waste development resources on a faction of such limited appeal, who's only accomplishment is getting repeatedly destroyed. The only thing appealing about them in FO3 was Col Autumn's trench coat.

Yes. And it is why I became CaptainPatch.

Thread title begs to differ, it may have drifter off topic but I'm trying to keep on it. Effectively the Enclave have lost all their main bases of operations. They have only 1 Enclave reconised "outpost"

I have said I wouldn't mind seeing abbandoned outposts but seeing active Enclave, joinable would be a joke. That would not be the Enclave. Enclave have a very clear structure and follow orders without question (who else would catch a deathclaw and stick a hat on it?) suddenly going all soft and asking some random, inferior wastelander to help them -ignoring letting them in to their bunker- is out of character.

Cider, do you really believe what you are saying?

You're a bit too stressed, and irrational, at this point...

If the BoS only attack hostile people, at what point did the Institute attack them, to provoke a full scale campaign by the BoS into the Commonwealth?

Pretty much this, agreeing with Andro as usual

Lets not turn worthy opponents into some comical version of themself just to be beaten to shame again, not being funny, not adding much, if anything, its just sad to me they've been killed off without telling us about their goals, structure and such , aside from them being printed as classical sci-fi villains with world conquest plans and making impossible, gameplay wise, to ever side with them properly.

Agreed. Plus, if anything, the loss of their homes and families to attacks by wastelanders in Fallout 3 would, undoubtedly, only increase the paranoia and hatred in any remaining remnants.

Turning them into softy humanitarians suddenly makes little sense. And would be a disservice.

Bringing them back as a faction would just lead to them getting defeated again. Because they're inevitably cast as the villain in any game they appear in. Which turns them into cheap dime-a-dozen stormtrooper clones. If Fallout 3 didn't already do that.

However, I wouldn't mind seeing a squad of disenfranchised Enclave soldiers in a vertibird wrecking havoc in vengeance Apocalypse Now style as some sort of random encounter though. Or perhaps exploring an abandoned Enclave bunker or listening post.

Actually, there are ways to make an Enclave-based DLC without a single Enclave troop alive. Consider the following scenario:

1. A DLC adds a nice chunk of land, immediately adjacent to the currently available lands, with lots of new monsters, areas to explore, NPCs, radiant quests, etc.

2. While wandering, you stumble upon an abandoned bunker, full of nasty critters and robotic defenses. You find a computer with bunch of log entries that show the last days and the demise of the Enclave. On a different terminal you find entries regarding the whereabouts of the bunker troops and how Colonel so and so ordered the final disbanding of the unit and the preservation of the secret prototype lest it falls in enemy hands. You find out that the prototype has been disassembled and hidden in six different locations in the Commonwealth with hopes one day to be used to restore the Enclave United States to their former glory.

3. After some nice dungeon abandoned sites crawling, you find the six pieces of the prototype, an even more badass version of power armor. The key, however, is that this armor equipped with a powerful computer with near AI abilities, designed to keep the Enclave troops firmly indoctrinated, to assist the command by generating orders depending on the circumstances, and to provide guidance to troops in case of withdrawing or defeat. When you enter the complete power armor, it begins to talk to you in a way similar to the stealth suit in the NV-DLC. Consider a hybrid between the stealth suit AI and that of the helmet of the Cabot's quest. The suit computer figures out that this is the only unit available and begins instructing you how to rebuild: slowly, by requiting suitable candidates from the settlers and NPCs, by loading to your Pip Boy of pans for weapons and armor, instructing you where to set outposts, etc. . . Something like restoring the Dark Brotherhood in Oblivion/Skyrim

4. Then it is up to you to decide how to shape your faction/army. You don't have to follow every suggestion from the suit computer.

I suggest all the Nay Sayers regarding the Enclave go look at the history of these guys. They had every avenue of technology and unlimited resources available to them. The fact that people think they're not an effective threat anymore is laughable.

So yes the Enclave did get wiped out at the Poseidon Oil Rig. Yes they did get wiped out at Raven Rock. But important questions remain.

1. Where and What is high Command?


2. Elite fighting unit Enclave Sigma?


3. What is ED-E's special Mission?


4. Where is the Top Secret Spaceship Facility?

My Theory

After Fallout 3 i felt there was never any real closure for the Enclave. Far to many gaps in the story. I Think Bethesda did this intentionally to build up the Enclave to finally give the player the option of joining. When you leave the current vault 111 you have one goal in mind, that's to find your son. so the protagonist has no allegiance to either the Institute or BOS. As a vault dweller you fit the recruitment criteria of the Enclave. In every story we've seen the protagonist destroy the Enclave or help destroy it. For the first time the story could involve the protagonist joining the Enclave and becoming the hero that brings the Enclave back.

How would he do this you ask?

Its known around the wasteland that the Enclave had secret bases all over the place. Restoring the ZAX Super Computer at High Command assuming its in Boston would restore the communications link between these locations. The Enclave would then be able to co-ordinate its remaining outposts to make its way to High Command where the plan to retake the wasteland could begin. Ultimately the destruction of the BOS in the Boston area and an alliance created with the Institute to provide synth soldiers in exchange for highly advanced technology.

Those are my thoughts

The what now?

The Institute has zero reason to ally with The Enclave. Enclave technology is actually far behind their own.

Likewise, I doubt the two groups would get along. The Institute governs itself, and no-one there gives a damn about the U.S. or the pre-war government. They wouldn't recognize The Enclave's authority anymore than Vault 101 did.

I thought about deleting one bickering post, and then another, and then another ...

1. You don't call each other names.
2. You don't get to tell other members where they can and cannot post. That's for us to decide.
3. You don't get to twist each other's words around.
4. You don't get to whine about other people twisting your words around.

If you have issues with another member, hit the report button and walk away.

Not sure if I need a banhammer or an elephant gun.