Settlement Critics and Suggestions for updates.

Post » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:06 pm


Why not? What if the player character is "General" or other related leader which carries authority in the settlement; why wouldn't the player character decide matters like job assignment, settlement planning or provision network structures?



Spoiler
A key hint regarding the nature and context of job assignment comes from the fact that dialogue and behaviour returns "What can I do to help?" There's no feudal head-bowing, kneeling, grovelling or any other indications of the unspoken lament, "Oh NO! I'm being Tyrannized by Nate the Nob". So, in this context, I'd question the applicability of words like "control" when the context is clearly portraying a symbiotic relationship or confluence of activity - especially when the mechanics are there to cause a settlement to withdraw from alliance with you if you do not meet the settlers expectations.



Are we still talking about role-playing, here?


Role playing is all about "You are in this situation; what do you do?" It doesn't matter if the medium is dungeon-mastered pen and paper or first-person virtual-reality, role-play revolves around player choice and self-direction set in the perspective of the player character.


Spoiler
On this point, one of the really important role-playing features that has been conspicuously and, perhaps, inappropriately absent from previous versions of Fallout has been the transition of player role from minion (job-doer) to boss (job-giver). I tend to think that the Settlement system, in its current state, is a solid first attempt at laying the foundation for an answer to this shortcoming. But, if you take away the high level decision-making characterised by planning, strategies, etc., we wind up with the same old TES/Fallout absurdity of "Yay! I'm leader! Now I have to keep doing what I'm told" - kinda reminiscent of "One fine day in the middle of the night", don't you think? My point is, that as a quality RPG scenario progresses, the player has the option to accept rank, responsibility and authority which, being at the player's option, allows the player to choose to keep the gameplay uniform or allow the level of gameplay to deepen and evolve as the player character gains experience and ability.



And, as for the rest, there are already have two settlements attached to settlers with backstories of significant depth. So much of what you're suggesting is already in place - but accompanied by the sorts of things role-players would expect from a role-playing game of this level.


Spoiler
Here are some fun facts:


  • Covenant has a quite a deep backstory presented as a mystery - albeit, with some very dubious "karma" mechanics but, hey! What two people on earth will ever totally agree on things like this?

  • Sanctuary, care of the Longs, also has a marvellously well-thought out collection of back-stories. Again, it's a mystery because of a very real veteran/PTS attitude that people who weren't there wouldn't understand and would only make things worse if informed of the key events.

This background is a complete match to the violent, proto-feudal world of Fallout and not supposed to be spoon-fed. One has to get off the beaten track and start thinking for oneself and making ones own decisions because that's the only way to present an in-game mystery and quite frankly, thinking for oneself is the whole point of role-play - which is why I think it so appropriate, when the option to gain rank is presented, for the player to acquire authority commensurate with that rank (not just rank in name only).




On this issue of backstories, another poster was expressing frustration because settlers are too friendly!! I would have agreed with this if we were talking about a local population exceeding 2 million but smaller communities tend to be "friendlier" and overtly "polite" so it makes sense that most settlers in these tiny settlements want to swap "small talk" with the player character every time they pass on by. At the other extreme, I think it makes tremendous sense that most NPCs do not want to share their life story (i.e. backstory) with the player character and the few that do are only willing to do so because they have gotten to know the player character well enough to want to be friends (i.e. "followers"). And, in role playing games, that's where backstories really fit; with party/squad members or companion/follower NPCs, not with meagre associates who happen to share some of the same spaces that the player character occasionally passes through.



On this point, I really have to ask, why wouldn't there be places where the player character will always be a stranger; an outsider?


And, why shouldn't there be 20-30 or better still 170-180 odd workshops that a player (wanting more strategy and less spoon-feeding) can choose to activate as generic settlements?



My point is that you really do have 2-3 core settlements with settler backstories. Maybe it's a bit much having another 7-8 settlements dumped on you by Preston but the other 20 are optional. If you choose to send settlers to those, that's got nothing to do with good or bad game design - that's all on you if it's not what you want.



Regarding the proposed Sanctuary/RedRocket amalgamation, that would remove a very nice strategic opportunity with respect to the effect of insufficient width of passage between fire zones on hostile traffic. This said,



Spoiler
The largest extent of settlement area can never, under any circumstances, exceed the length of the default uGridsToLoad setting and function correctly. I'm not sure how your idea for combining Red Rocket and Sanctuary measures up for this but it would be very simple to test. Simply erect a tower at the point on the Sanctuary build boundary which is high enough to be within line of sight from a point at the furthest edge of the red rocket build boundary. Then fast travel to the Castle and then back to Concord. Now, run to that point on the furtherest edge on the Red Rocket build boundary and stop and look; can you see the tower you built on the other side of Sanctuary. If you can't, then combining Red Rocket and Santuary into a supersettlement is a very bad idea because as you walk into the settlement things will load and not necessarily in the correct order - which will cause all sorts of problems from exploding displays to settlers taking mystery fall damage or getting trapped inside object models - not to mention formerly operating equipment (e.g. water purifiers and lights) which will stop working and need a manual restart because the power cabling or, worse still, the generators spawned some time after the object dependent on them. And this issue with some objects not spawning because there are too many objects (often because the load area is too big to be practical) isn't just a Gamebryo thing either - I've seen plenty of this in games built on CryEngine too and CryEngine also has it's fair share of part-spawning weirdness as well. So, it's not like we're talking yesterdays tech, here. This is general, and ongoing engine limitation which is yet to be resolved.



[EDIT]


To put this in perspective, I'd reiterate something I've already mentioned and that is my preference for the use of proper person's names instead of just "Settler". I would like to see all settlers labelled with a mostly unique, randomly generated person's name (not a class), just to get things started on a more believable footing (I think the concept of introductions before names-becoming-visible can easily wait for the next version of Fallout, while getting individual naming off the ground in an update is simple enough and requires little enough effort to be eminently doable). For those of us who have difficulty remembering what job each name is assigned to, that's one of the side advantages of different professions favouring specific clothing. Hand out the right clobber for the assignment, and then things start to make more sense, visually.


[/EDIT]

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courtnay
 
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Post » Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:23 am


Definitely - I was really only thinking of those little modules that players build their houses out of. Assembling one of those modules (e.g. corridor section) mightn't take long but building an entire house - that's a whole other question. I'm thinking weeks or months rather than days when you add up the pieces, allow for shifts and maybe a little solo building...

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Rude_Bitch_420
 
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Post » Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:03 pm

One thing I forgot,



Maybe this means I have issues, but what about being able to Stimpak settlers, and other non-follower allies who are in bleedout, during or after combat?

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Sandeep Khatkar
 
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Post » Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:29 pm


Just fyi, for everyone, you can use the current system to build fences however you want, including non-90 degree angles, dealing with uneven/graded terrain, etc. To do this, use the fence posts. You can set the fence posts at different heights (for uneven/graded fences) and you can rotate them to connect the next fence section at anything other than a 90 degree angle.

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David Chambers
 
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Post » Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:44 pm

what, you mean when they're already snapped? awesome, thx, gonna try this

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Chris Ellis
 
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Post » Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:46 pm

They really should focus all their efforts into settlements and make it a richer experience.



Its the biggest change/addition they have ever done IMO, and it has limitless potential. We've always been able to play Bethesda games for a ridiculous amount of hours but now we can actually get invested in the world have have something that is unique and our own.



An interface for better control of settler jobs/crops/beds is probably #1 on my list.

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BethanyRhain
 
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Post » Mon Jan 18, 2016 3:05 am

If you could manage settlers in the settlements like you can in the vault game, it would be great. A lot of problems would solved if you could go into workshop mode and pull up a tab to see who was in a settlement and what they were doing. Being to assign, reassign or move people around without having to chase they down would be a vast improvement.

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Josh Trembly
 
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Post » Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:25 am


I totally agree with all of this.



The idea of assigning a settler as an administrator to an admin desk or something of the sort, is one way to offer a one-stop system for overview and better access to settler assignments (beds/jobs/gear to equip/etc.) which I think would tie in nicely with the existing mechanics. Something like this could be interesting if set up along the lines of specialist administrators (i.e. each confined to any of agricultural/security/scrapping/commercial/etc.) at Leadership Perk #1 and a general administrator who ties into everything at Leadership Perk #2 once all of the specialist administrators are set up. The perk restrictions need not apply at all levels of difficulty - I'm thinking of that as being something to make survival/hardcoe mode more like a survival/hardcoe mode and less like a "level of difficulty".

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WTW
 
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Post » Mon Jan 18, 2016 6:21 am

true

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Arrogant SId
 
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Post » Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:07 am

Updated the beginning list.


220 votes, of which 59% of users agree the settlements are positive, 30% say it is OK.


74% say they want to see it in future games but improved.


39% want more integration with other factions (honestly this surprises me, I thought most people disliked the Minutemen questline), and 31% did not like minutemen integration.


85% want to see DLC with settlements, of which 23% want it to be exclusively for settlements.


More so than anything, users want to see the core mechanics modified/fixed (83%).



Bethesda have clearly created something most people enjoy, lets hope to see it better expanded in future games!

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Emmi Coolahan
 
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