There are also quite a lot of references about records being burned/ wiped clean by Daedra/ competing nobles/alliances. Not every pretender to the throne is going to be recorded. Even Varen Aquilarios' records are probably being burned by some Daedroth. There are even quests where books and records/ land titles and ownership get burned and there are comments how that might cause problems in the future when the progeny of the current nobles lay claim to lands without any proof. In fact there is even someone who mentions that Varen's records are being purged as we speak.

It is a dark time of war and especially in the Imperial City everything is being destroyed or pulled into Coldharbour.

It is also to be noted that the alliances don't originally all know about the Planemeld, otherwise they wouldn't be fighting each other. It is part of Molag Bal's plot to distract the alliances whilst he goes on absorbing Nirn. It took a lot of secret meetings and convincing to get the 3 leaders to do something and eventually it was the Mages and Fighters Guild who banded to do something. All in secrecy and I am pretty sure any confidential documents are not gonna be public knowledge 1000 afterwards.

Yes, one should be weary of possible inaccuracies or silly things happening but as people mentioned above, it simply might get mentioned in the next game with a "convincing" explanation. Like the Dragon Cult being introduced in Skyrim.

and before Skyrim, we heard nothing about the ancient Dragon Cult, doesn't mean it didn't happen..

And before Oblivion we were all told by the Dunmer of Morrowind that Cyrodiil was a heavily forested place.

and before Morrowind (or before Redguard if your going to count it), we were told that Imperial wasn't even a race, but a culture of united races. I don't see anyone arguing that the Imperial race doesn't exist though

Let's not forget the Argonian and Khajiit being constantly retconned in each installment and they just gave us a flimsy "Oh it's the moons/hist!" excuse to justify all the appearances!

Of course they are not going to argue the mess Bethesda made in the games with each constant retcon, ESO just gets attacked because MMO.

And they handwaved the endings of Daggerfall by saying "They all happened because TIME MAGIC BREAKING THINGY!"

Exactly! "IT'S JUST MAGIC!" or "OH ERM, IT'S CHIM! YEAH LET'S GO WITH THAT!"

"I hear the Nerevarine went on an expedition to Akivir..."

Why would my Nerevarine do that?

Seriously, I HAD NO REASON TO DO THAT.

while people will refuse to admit it, this is the case.. on these particular forums, MMO's (and online games in general) are harshly hated with people casting judgment down on them without actually learning much about them other than they are online (I would argue that perhaps that they are asocial.. but then I wonder why they would be on a forum in the first place )


they attack it and try and invent reasons to hate it simply because its online..

It's a rumor.

granted, any number of things could have happened post-game that we never saw that caused the Nerevarine to head to Akavir..

This stupid to have multiple endings who change stuff on an large scale.

ESO is an time of trouble, Roman empire also managed to have a lot of emperors in an short time during the civil war.

The important is that the daeric invasion was stopped.

its important to differentiate gameplay and lore, cyrodil is flatter and more open than in Oblivion as its an pvp battleground you want room to fight and not to many polygons to render.

In Oblivion the southern part of Cyrodil was pretty tropical, the northern part bordered to Skyrim, should that area also be tropical? Yes the map is compressed a lot so you can ride from tropic to polar in a day.

Personal i'm pretty happy with ESO except that the Altmer should have an more fancy architecture.

My high point was more view into Khaitt culture.

You mean Suthay-raht culture the rest of the Khajiit are sadly not in the game.

That's not how a dragon break works, everything happens there isn't any "doesn't happen"

Also yes, to everyone in this thread, ESO is 100% canon. Both Bethesda and Zenimax have stated this already.

This isn't quite true. It may be commonplace on these forums, but not for the ESO "community" in general. Of course there are people that will say anything about something they don't like, and there's certainly been people who were critical of ESO solely because it wasn't identical to Skyrim (mostly people that have never played TES before Skyrim). That's all opinion, but there are others with legitimate criticisms.


I think most legitimate, lore-based criticisms aren't actually related to "errors" in the lore, rather what Zenimax has "done" to the lore. For instance, religion has always, in some form, played a pivotal role in TES. It's been known that they all seem to be based around the same central belief, and in turn, all may possess some level of truth. Through ESO, we now know the Bosmers' beliefs are factual. This has a sort of ripple effect on the rest of the races, and their respective religions.


There's also criticism of the alliance war, and pretty much everything else. It's not so much "errors" in things like contradicting timeline events, but more about the writing, and new additions to the lore of the series. It's still all pretty much a matter of opinion, but that doesn't mean someone's opinion doesn't possess a valid criticism.

They settle a lot of "contradictions"

for instance Morrowind and Argonia are allies because the Tribunal and the Hist known about Molag Bal's plan and see it beneficial to fight against that, skyrim joins in because they want to remain independent from an empire but then you have people who don't follow that for instance many Dunmer disagree with the alliance and Telvanni even breaks off from Morrowind, many argonians also don't care for it and iirc there were Nords who broke off from Skyrim because of it.

Same with High Rock, many bretons and redguard don't support the alliance because of the orcs. There are even settlements that left the alliances in protest of it iirc. The only one that's probably not having deserters is the Aldmeri Dominion but I wouldn't really know as I haven't really looked into them.

As for what they're doing with the lore, they're doing some pretty cool stuff. Sure there are some bad stuff but writing quality is well above what we got in skyrim and oblivion, it's more unique instead of generic setting and ESO has been expanding on past lore that wasn't touched on as much as they should have been, like the Eye of Magnus.

The Ebonheart pact was born before the little disagreement with Molag Bal, iirc. The UESP:

Perhaps the greatest – and most surprising – historical event the Argonians took part in during the Second Era was the Liberation War (better remembered as the Second Akaviri Invasion). In 2E 572, a strong http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Akaviri force led by Ada’Soom Dir-Kamal attacked http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Windhelm in Eastern http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Skyrim, killing Queen http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Mabjaarn_Flame-Hair and Princess http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Nurnhilde. Leaving the ruined city behind, the eastern army continued on their way to http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Riften but found it heavily fortified by the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Nord, who were led by http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Jorunn the Skald-King and http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Wulfharth the Ash-King (who was called back to http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Nirn from http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Sovngarde by the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Greybeards).^{http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Argonian#cite_note-JtSK-14http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Argonian#cite_note-TSAI-15http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Argonian#cite_note-AtS-16} The invaders decided to bypass the Nordic city and entered Morrowind instead, where the Dunmeri army led by http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Almalexia fought against them but were forced to retreat into Stonefalls (although it is rumored that Mother Morrowind and the Skald-Prince collaborated with one another to set this up despite their races’ ancient enmity).^{http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Argonian#cite_note-AtS-16} With their backs towards the Inner Sea, the Akaviri fought viciously against the combined Nord-Dunmer force, but with the rest of the Akaviri fleet on the horizon it seemed that the Tamrielics would be overrun and slaughtered.^{http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Argonian#cite_note-AtS-16http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Argonian#cite_note-UA-17}

Sometime prior to the initial invasion, an Argonian slave girl named Heita-Meen escaped from the Dres plantation she was being forced to work upon alongside several of her compatriots, but was captured by the Dunmer-aligned Archein tribe and taken back to their village. While being held there she received a vision from their Hist tree, one showing the Nords and Dunmer dying at the hands of the Akaviri. She saw an opportunity in this, and when taken back to Thorn she killed her Slavemaster and by way of duel took control of the Archein guards.^{http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Argonian#cite_note-FAtS-18} She headed to Stormhold, where she was able to gain the support of the majority of the Shellbacks there, and then made haste to aid the Dunmer and Nords in Stonefalls. At first the Dark Elves were alarmed to see a force of armed slaves heading towards them; some even attacked the Argonians out of fear.^{http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Argonian#cite_note-AtS-16} However, the three races were able to get over their mutual hatred and resoundingly drove the invaders into the Sea to drown. In that moment the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Ebonheart_Pact was born, and would continue to exist all the way up to the http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Planemeld ten years later in 2E 582.^{http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Argonian#cite_note-ESO-6} Unlike the other three factions in the Alliance War, the Ebonheart Pact focused largely on wiping away the rashness of Imperial rule as well as ending mortal scheming with higher powers from beyond Nirn.^{http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Argonian#cite_note-TToTEP-19}

As a show of thanks for the timely intervention of the Argonians, the Dunmer formally ended the enslavement of Lizard Folk (but the practice of enslaving itself did not end).^{http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Argonian#cite_note-GttEP-20} However, some Dunmer (notably House Telvanni) refused to accept these terms and therefore redrew from the Pact. Likewise, many Argonians felt that the Dunmer deserved retribution for their crimes^{http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Argonian#cite_note-AFAM-21} and only the regions of Shadowfen, Thornmarsh, and Murkmire in Black Marsh joined the Ebonheart Pact.^{http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Argonian#cite_note-FAtS-18} Some left their homeland entirely, and settled in other provinces. Eventually the Great Moot that ruled over Morrowind, Black Marsh, and Skyrim consolidated their provinces into a single nation.^{http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Argonian#cite_note-ESO-6}

Yes, and that's where people begin to disagree. Some like the way they things were "settled," while others don't. It's like that for almost everything. Always has been, and most likely always will be.


There's Altmer in other regions who mention their disapproval of the Dominion. I don't know their background, so I can't definitively state whether or not they're deserters, but they certainly aren't fighting for the Dominion. This is the case with almost every race, from each alliance. It's there to help those within their chosen alliance feel like they chose the "right" side, even though no side is correct, it's ultimately a losing battle no matter which team you're on, and the whole Alliance War really makes no sense to begin with.


It's essentially a race war, which no matter which side wins, no race (or region, if you prefer) is going to be happy with the outcome, and as the player, we know each faction dissipates before long anyway.


The Khajiit and Bosmer have extreme ideological differences, yet large portions of each race's population decides they're going to fight to put an Altmer in power. This, because they can't individually survive the other factions. Did they draw straws to decide who becomes ruler? Why not let the Bosmer rule? Or the Khajiit? Were the Altmer going to invade if they refused? This couldn't be it, because it would have led them (Bosmer & Khajiit) to reach out to the other factions, which if the situation is as described, the Dominion would easily be toppled once this happened, as well as the other alliance. This same logic applies to the Ebonheart Pact as well -- an alliance that really makes no sense. What does each region's native race think is going to happen when their alliance is victorious? Then you have the Imperials, who, despite the fighting taking place in their land, seem to have no opinion as to who the better ruler would be.


There's just quite a few parts in which it seems they'll just write a new book really fast, or some brief dialogue, to put the pieces into place. If there's something that contradicts a previously written book, they'll just add another book that states the other author was wrong.


As I've mentioned, though, much of it is just opinion. Some will love it, some won't, others will be indifferent.

Ebonheart wants independence, basically. The altmer believe the other races aren't "mature" enough to rule. Emric and company just want gold/trade.

Before Ysgramor led the Nord people south, our ancestors flourished in the frozen continent of Atmora, and to this day our people prefer the bitter climes of northern Tamriel.

The Dark Elves abide in Morrowind, a harsh land of ashfall and perpetual earthquakes.

The Argonians endure the treacherous and impenetrable depths of Black Marsh.

The alliance between our races was born in dark times, when Nord, Dunmer and free Argonians fought as one to repel the invasion of the Akaviri slavemasters.

Our greatest strength is the adversity we have overcome.

Our resolve is glacial, our might is forged in fire, and our courage, cultivated by the beasts of the jungle.

We are Ebonheart. We are as one. And by this, our victory is assured.

-Jorunn

I have no hatred for the races of Man, but they are young. Like all children, they are driven by emotion. They lack the wisdom that comes with age. I would sooner place an

Altmer infant on the Ruby throne than surrender Tamriel to their capricious whims.

The Altmer, Bosmer, and Khajiit share the common traits of intelligence, patience, and reason. We do not seek riches or plunder. Domination is not our goal, nor is the

acclamation of power for its own sake.

Today we make our stand. Today we take back the Ruby Throne which is ours by ancient right and the blessings of the Divines.

Stand with us.

--Ayrenn

Our supplies dwindle. Our trade routes are shut down. Our people suffer.

Why? Because a pretender sits upon the Ruby Throne.

Let us take up arms! Let the fields of Cyrodiil run red with the blood of our fallen enemies!

But let us spare the lives of a few, so that they may return to their homelands to tell their fellows the fate they met at the hands of the Daggerfall Covenant!

One Land! One Emperor!

Who among you will stand with me?

-High King Emeric

The plague had a lot to do with the Dominion and the Covenant. http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Knahaten_Flu

None of the alliances are rock solid. We know they won't last. I think I can tolerate it; in the context of the game it fits. In the context of the overall series, it also fits, imo.

This really highlights my qualm with the alliances. Within the Dominion, neither the Bosmer or Khajiit see an issue with Ayrenn's proclamation. Not once did either race think, "What happens when we help procure the throne for her, and she decides she'd rather put an Altmer infant on it than a Khajiit or Bosmer?" Or, "Right now it's only the humans that aren't good enough, but Altmer are by all means the superior race, so this obviously alludes to a philosophy that an Altmer should always reside on the throne." Surely someone would realize this.


Same with the Ebonheart Pact. These races all despise each other. Surely someone among the Dunmer or Argonians knew they wouldn't all of a sudden "get along" because they helped make a Nord emperor. This is perhaps the most illogical alliance of the three. The Dunmer and Argonians are going to make the Nirds the most powerful race known in Tamriel? Out of any region on Nirn they could join with, they really thought the Nords were the most trustworthy? There is no plausible way to explain two races thinking that. Even the literature listed above us nonsense. The three racial groups are used to a rigid environment, so they can trust each other, and two of them can trust the third with the throne? Not only is the notion that, because they all come from rigid environments, they think they'll make a good alliance ridiculous, but they've long despised each other, and their environments haven't altered. It makes no sense, and that is so illogical it almost hurts to type it.


For all three alliances, it still doesn't make sense why all of the races decided which race in their respective alliance would actually hold the throne. Why would the the Altmer/Nord/Bretons?

I think the Ebonheart pact thought if they made a Nord emperor, especially Joruun, he'd do what the Pact wanted; separate homelands with the emperor in charge in name only. How that would work out with the other two factions, who knows? Joruun doesn't really want to be king; his sister was supposed to be queen. He wanted to be a bard, a skaal. Circumstances forced the situation. Ayrenn came home from wandering for years to take the throne; she wants it, or considers it her duty. Emeric is Emeric; trade is important or whatever. Notice the lines about leaving a few survivors to go back and tell the others about the mighty Covenant. Of the three, I'd rather have Joruun.

Khajiit consider themselves indebted to the Altmer; they were the only ones who at least tried to help when the pandemic hit. Obligation is a strong tie, but only for so long. Especially when you have groups like the Thalmor undermining things in the background that Ayrenn doesn't seem to notice. The Bosmer aren't that concerned; they can fade into the Green and leave the silly altmer trying to prune back the forest and tame it. The Khajiit aren't going to be a threat to the Bosmer for a long time because of the pandemic.

Emeric is, imo, ignoring the fact the orcs aren't the nice friendly friends they are showing themselves as, right now. Right now they are trying to rebuild Orsinium. Once their homeland is stable, well, read the book in game that explains the orcs are just waiting. Revenge is deferred, not cancelled. Reguards might be in it for the benefit of trade, or privateering. I think I missed something in that area. Not my favorite faction.

Honestly when the game first was announced I thought that the alliances were all forced together as well, but the game does do a good job of explaining in the context of the time how they came to be.

The Ebonheart Pact was forced together by the Akaviri Invasions, if there is anything that will unify a fractured group of peoples it is the threat of a foreign invasion (like the greco-persian wars). The Pact then decided to stay together when they realized how the Empire was falling apart. Rather than face the coming political instability alone, they thought it prudent to stay together. Many Argonians refuse to support the Pact and House Telvanni even seceded from it.

The Daggerfall Covenant was similarly forced together by a massive invasion of reachmen. After they threw back the reachmen, the loose alliance of High Rock cities stayed together and it took another significant threat for King Emeric to give the Orc's Wrothgar's independence, and his diplomatic prowess (through a political marriage) to bring the king of Hammerfell into the fold and strengthen the Covenant further.

The Aldmeri Dominion requires the least explanation as those races have no real hatred of one another. It makes it clear in the game that Ayrenn is not a High Elf supremacist as the Skyrim AD are. There is even the Veiled Heritance, a High Elf Supremacy group that she must actively combat in order to keep the Dominon together.

They did a good job in my opinion of explaining how the alliances came together but of course, not everyone will be satisfied.

Doesn't make any sense

1.They hate each other you know a lot....a genocide level of hatred.

2.The pre Dagoth Ur Tribunal doesn't need any help....and treated anything that was not a Dunmer like dirt.Even with Tiber Septim many Indoril commited suicide rather than accept it.

3.You know that Morrowind wasn't part of the Empire back then?

1.There is no one king of Hammerfell....the Redguards are happy if they don't kill each other.

2.Orsinium didn't even exist at that point.

3.It took a timestomping robot for the Orcs to be accepted as a sentinent species and not just Goblinkin

4.Not even Tiber Septim caused them to become allies.

-

The AD is the only one that makes sense and even that has the Khajiit arbitrary being in since they were in Sykrim....And hating you mean apart from the wars and hatred between Bosmer and Khajiit?

If you listen to things in the game, you find out that the Tribunal isn't going every year to Red Mountain the way they used to do. They aren't showing themselves in public the way they used to. I heard what the ghosts at Vivec's Antlers said; while the "party line" is that Vivec summoned the water to drown the Akaviri while teaching his own troops to breathe water, the ghosts say the water took almost everyone, dunmeri as well as the enemy. For a god, that was kind of careless. Almalexia doesn't know about and needs an agent to stop the plague. The Tribunal is far from all powerful now, for whatever reason.

Orsinium as a kingdom might not have existed. Orsinium as a city did. The orcs are pretty cheesed off about the Bretons wrecking the place, even though they are playing nice for right now. Who says the Bretons are "accepting" the orcs? The orcs are a handy tool and sword fodder to keep Bretons from dying.

Again, the pandemic has really cut down the khajiiti population. Even if they wanted to continue fighting with the bosmer, they can't. The bosmer weren't hit as hard, but they aren't in the best of condition either.

The way the game sets things up, the alliances can exist for a while. In the long run, no. Too much past history between everyone.

This is what made it far too difficult for me, personally, to get into ESO. How am I supposed to feel loyalty to any of the factions when it's blatantly obvious none of them will prosper? None if it made sense. Sure, Zeni "explains" it all, but putting a book or conversation in the game doesn't necessarily equate to there being any logic behind it.


It would have been far more logical for any region that's aware of the current happenings (which none of them truly seem to be) to be involved in a truce with every other. The idea that the world is on the brink of complete destruction, and these various regions are basically arguing with each other about who's going to rule it is beyond ridiculous.


That isn't to mention that the level of animosity between every race on Nirn makes everything that much more ridiculous. Let's use Ayrenn as an example. She states that human lifespans are too short to rule. This clearly tells every human race that they will never rule under Altmer leadership. Obviously a "victory" under this scenario will only be when the entire human race is annihilated, because as long as this ideology exists, there won't be peace. No human race is going to accept the fact the idea that they'll always be ruled by an Altmer because as a human, they're essentially "unfit" to rule. This goes for each faction -- no race is going to put the other in power, because anyone that gives it any thought at all would realize the ruling race will always prefer their successor to belong to the same race. Each race would look at each other and say, "If we're all going to be on the same side, and who actually 'rules' doesn't matter, then why not one of us, instead of you Mr./Ms. Altmer/Breton/Nord?"


Zeni can put a book or NPC in the game that gives a reason why, but the logic behind that reason can still be absent. Everything I've done in the game has always felt like it was the concoction of a board room, not the natural happenings of a world on fire.