Souls and Soul-Ownership, Query : The Elder Scrolls Series Discussion

» Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:46 pm

So I have been wondering for a while since it came up in Skyrim way back but was never expanded on, how does soul ownership work?

Let me elaborate: a Nord is destined to go to Sovngarde upon their death unless their soul is owned by someone else (such as being a Lycan means you are owned by Hircine) but in the context of Skyrim you are capable of technically giving your soul to multiple sources which is impossible.

Imagine this: a Nord Werewolf becomes a Nightingale but dies in the devoted service of the Dark Brotherhood...who gets this mortal's soul? Nocturnal, Hircine, Sithis, or Sovngarde?

Are there strict contract stipulations that the Aedra and Daedra (and Sithis) abide by? Is this some weird supernatural legal case?

With so many ways to lose ownership of your soul it seems likely that this question would be answered already but I have not yet seen it...

» Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:46 am

In instances where there's multiple claims on your soul, personally i'd imagine it's just a matter of whoever manages to snag you away from the grasp of the others first. The gods don't all play nice with each other :v.

» Tue Jan 26, 2016 3:54 pm

I wonder which Daedra has the most souls?

» Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:26 pm

The few books we can read of the 16 Accords of Madness have a couple cases of Daedric Princes 'fighting' over a soul, although I'm not sure how trustworthy those books are as sources, they could just be fiction - within fiction. In any case in those books it seems more like a political legal game or something, if someone becomes clearly mad then Sheogorath takes them to the Shivering Isles when they die, even in the case of an Orc loyal to Malacath and a follower of Vaermina, when said Daedric princes are even present upon their death alongside Sheo.

» Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:40 pm

Personally the idea of anyone claiming your soul is entirely just a bluff gods do save an exception with soul gems. The way I take it from Tsun of "You can come here when it's your time if you choose too" shows it's entirely based on the individual where they go but gods will trick people into believing their soul is destined to go to the god's realm.

» Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:36 pm

I'm sure there's been at least one wierdo in Tamrielic history who went around promising their soul to as many different Aedra and Daedra as possible, just to see what would happen when they died.

» Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:43 am

That's what I thought too, but it could be a special case with the Dragonborn?

» Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:51 am

And then soul trapped themselves in their final moments to tell all of them to shove it?

» Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:20 am

the companion's questline says differently, what with Kodlak being forced to "hide" at Ysgramor's tomb after death to avoid Hircine long enough for you to free his soul from Lycanthropy. We can go to Sovngarde and actually see Kodlak there if we saved his soul.

Then there is the case of the Nightingales who are owned via contract with Nocturnal which we can see fulfilled by all the dead Nightingales protecting the Evergloam's entrance.

Molag Bal took that Boethia's cultists soul in his Skyrim Questline and I'm I bet he took that widowed Guy's from the Oblivion Questline as well (hence his reason for corrupting them).

So I have absolutely no belief that everyone lies about soul ownership as we see evidence supporting it and no evidence refuting it

» Tue Jan 26, 2016 6:57 pm

I would like to clarify this, not all Nords are destined for Sovngarde by birthright.. its sort of an afterlife for only "the chosen few".. I am pretty sure just like most races, a good chunk of the souls are recycled through the dreamsleeve (and souls themselves may not actually be bound to a single race at all, and the reason we see ghosts or bound souls as a specific race being they haven't had those racial aspects "cleaned" in the sleeve yet)...

and while there are conflicting opinions on this, Sovngarde may not be exclusive to just the Nord race, but to anyone Shor deems worthy who followed either the Nord Pantheon, or "lived as if they were a Nord"..

» Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:05 pm

You're ignoring what I said. Kodlak believed his soul was destined to go to Hircine but just because he didn't go to Hircine means little as ghosts in TES regardless of where they believe to go have been a common thing throughout the games, the Nightingales believed that's where they would end up through Nocturnal's pact, Molag Bal made the Boethiah cultist submit to him so obviously the cultist believed he would go to Molag Bal. Each example holds that they each believe their soul was going somewhere but that doesn't mean they really have to go there.

There is a difference between belief and reality.

» Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:33 pm

and yet there is not a single instance that says otherwise. At not a single point in the TES series has someone been owned by a Prince but went to a different afterlife because they "believed" they would

» Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:40 am

Well we can't say that because tbf we haven't seen where most souls go, we only know they go to an afterlife but if they go to certain one is still unknown. So far the only characters we can say that go to an afterlife they choose to was sovngarde which brings what Tsun said that "You can come here when it's your time" more relevant because this god would know, he has no reason to lie and talking to souls of the departed is pretty much his job, saying "well it's just the dragonborn" is nothing but straw grasping.

So unless you can actually prove a point against it without a soul going "Nope I'm not going there, I'm going here" then it's really up to theory as there is enough to state that yea, that's what happens. The Nightingales, the Harbingers, the souls in Sovngarde, that's all proof that can be used for my point as those souls believed they were destined to go there.

» Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:07 pm

Tsun says you can go to Sovngarde because you are Dragonborn, there is no evidence to support him being able to know if your soul is owned by someone else. This neither proves nor even implies anything to the contrary of my side.

We have zero evidence to even imply your theory is correct and yet every single bit of evidence supports what I have already said.

It is like claiming argonians are made of chocolate, we know they aren't because they are made of scales, bone, and organs but why not assume they are made of chocolate anyways?